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Preview: Comments on Whole Health Source: Malocclusion: Disease of Civilization, Part VI

Comments on Whole Health Source: Malocclusion: Disease of Civilization, Part VI

Updated: 2018-03-17T06:41:54.004-07:00


"Hunter-gatherers and other non-industrial po...


"Hunter-gatherers and other non-industrial populations typically breastfeed for 2-4 years, but this is rare in affluent nations. Only two percent of the mothers in this study breastfed for longer than one year."

"Does he want feeding? Does he? Shall Mummy get her breast out?"

"Mother, I'm 47 and a Chartered Accountant"

Seriously though I had a thought about thumb sucking (which I did). Maybe children who aren't getting sufficient nutrition are doing the "non-nutritious sucking" out of desperation, trying to get D3, K2 or some other missing ingredient by sucking everything they can find. is bizarrely out of date. FOr e...

2009-11-24T16:07:25.369-08:00 is bizarrely out of date. FOr example: oysters....23 mg of cholesterol...... a food that is 'high in cholesterol'.

Ridiculous skewing of influence on readers based on empiric data.

As to K1, K2 nutritional analyses: has no K2 data whatsoever. Everything is based on phylloquinone content.

If you do a search on for any single 'ingredient' like oysters, you'll get a preferential presentation of canned or prepared foods.

I have not done any investigation, but I do wonder who is subsidizing or financing this website.

Sven, there are many studies in vivo, for example ...


Sven, there are many studies in vivo, for example you have in HEALTH MYTHS EXPOSED 2nd edition by Shane Ellison and recommended by Weston Price Foundation members some citation about that some polyphenols are in vivo even more effective taken from supplements than from original natural source.

Probably polyphenols is one of the main reasons why veggies and fruits are in general so healthy.
"Antioxidant Activity of Tea Polyphenols In Vivo: Evidence from Animal Studies" Journal of Nutrition, october 2003

The Disease-Fighting Power of Polyphenols
By Laurie Barclay, MD

Duck liver is also likely to be a good source of M...


Duck liver is also likely to be a good source of MK-4.

Hi Joseph, Mammalian liver is a good source of lo...


Hi Joseph,

Mammalian liver is a good source of long-chain menaquinones MK-7 through MK-10. It also contains some K1 and K2 MK-4, but not much of the latter. Chicken and goose liver is a good source of MK-4, especially foie gras which is very rich in it.

NutritionData is pretty good, but every now and then I see results I don't trust on it. Particularly when it comes to vitamins like K, that have several forms. You never know how they measured it or which forms they measured. This is a case where I trust the published papers more than NutritionData.

Question about liver. I believe I got the idea fr...


Question about liver. I believe I got the idea from this series or one of your others that liver was a good source of K2. I've been eating a decent amount of duck liver paste lately and plan on continuing with whatever the best butter I can buy is. The question is when I checked on liver it said basically no vit K. I wonder if this is because their chart is actually K1 and not K2 for the liver types I've checked.

Haven't found of good source of other livers to cook for myself. I only really get it when we head out of Tampa on vacation in Vegas, San Fran, etc.

@Adolfo: Do you have evidence that polyphenols ha...



Do you have evidence that polyphenols have any benefits in vivo? Any longer term trials?

For those of us who weren't raised on organ me...


For those of us who weren't raised on organ meats: try grinding liver, hearts, whatever organ meat and mixing it with ground beef (or grinding them all together) then using it as you would ground beef. No one will be able to tell. I wish I would have thought of that when my kids were little. I just started doing that...I've made meatballs, and chili that way. If anything the sauces were a bit richer.

Heidi, We all make "mistakes" with our ...



We all make "mistakes" with our kids, so don't feel alone. Just hope that overall the right decisions get made and put into practice more often than the wrong ones. We mothers are often so prone to taking on guilt, not to mention the guilt that is heaped upon us by others.

It's also sometimes tough to know when to tune out what other people say about what we do and when there is some merit to consider (or at least learn more). I find my gut instincts haven't always been the best either, but I do think my "filter" for new information is getting better all the time. The timing isn't always right though - so much I wish I'd considered earlier.

I'm finding it helpful to separate issues from typical 20th-21st century perspectives and try to see things from other angles before arriving at a decision.

Oh, and thanks to you too, Anna!


Oh, and thanks to you too, Anna!

Oh excellent! Thank you for your quick response. ...


Oh excellent! Thank you for your quick response. That is indeed easy to understand and explain to others. When nursing in public, I often hear that continued nursing contributes to poor dental health.

It's hard not feel some guilt over my past nutritional "mistakes" with regard to my child's health, but at least I can feel a little redeemed knowing that child-led weaning is best for her.

Thanks again,
Heidi E.

Heidi E. Take a look at retired dentist Brian Pal...


Heidi E.

Take a look at retired dentist Brian Palmer's website on breast-feeding. He has excellent slices which illustrate how differently babies suck from a real nipple versus a simulated nipple.
Main page
The second page is on breast feeding and the importance to health.

Hi Heidi, Glad you've made some positive chan...


Hi Heidi,

Glad you've made some positive changes, I hope your child's teeth improve.

Here's the theory of why breast feeding and bottle feeding are different.

Breast feeding and bottle feeding cause different patters of muscle activity in the mouth, and thus exert different forces on the surrounding bones. Breast feeding requires a peristaltic motion of the tongue that's similar to how an adult swallows (imagine a wave moving along the tongue as it pushes milk from the front to the back of the mouth-- you can feel it's the same motion your tongue makes when you swallow).

Bottle feeding requires a piston-like motion of the tongue that's different from normal swallowing, due to the different texture, shape and size of a plastic nipple, which does not approximate the texture, shape or size of a human breast. It creates a suction force in the mouth, creating inward pressure on the jaws that prevents them from broadening normally. This also leads to an increase in the height of the palate, constricting the sinus passages above.

Abnormal swallowing patterns are highly correlated with malocclusion. Breast feeding teaches a child the proper adult swallowing motion, whereas bottle feeding interferes with it.

Stephan, your site, among others has been a real s...


Stephan, your site, among others has been a real savior for me. I discovered your site and Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions book at nearly the same time, coincidentally, and boy has my life changed.

I started to wonder about my daughter's teeth because they were decaying. She is nearly three now. We are still nursing, so of course her dentist tells me that the nursing at night is what is causing the decay and has been urging me to wean her. And that seemed just so bizarre to me. Her teeth and mouth seem well formed and well spaced, but the cavities!

Now I realize that it was her diet. She doesn't eat much refined sugar and we don't serve juice on a daily basis. But we were vegetarians. Until 2 months ago, I was a vegetarian for 20 years. And she was also. She eats a little meat now, and as much butter as I can get into her. She gets Cod Liver Oil every few days (still working on getting her to take it straight so I don't have to hide it in smoothies that she may or may not drink).

I can't change her diet as readily as I can change mine, so I will happily continue to nurse knowing I'm passing on some of the benefits of my new diet. And she doesn't show any signs of stopping. Hopefully we'll see improvements in her dental health.

To the poster above who doesn't like to eat liver--I loved it as a child and I have lost my taste for it now. I just started cutting up frozen beef liver into little "pills" and taking it with a glass of milk. I try for about an ounce of raw liver each day among the other dietary changes I've made.

While I can see that the Paleo/Primal diet is clearly optimal, I'm not sure we'll ever be there. We're slowing getting grains out of our diet, but cultural and financial restrictions are hard to get around.

I do have a question about the nursing vs. bottle feeding/pacifiers. Why, in layman's terms, doesn't breastfeeding cause the same oral problems as the artificial nipples? I've heard lots of advice to the contrary (so many "experts" out there!) and I'd like to be armed with some more information.

Heidi E.

Hi Low-Joe, Interesting, thanks for sharing your ...


Hi Low-Joe,

Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience.

Hi Low-Joe, I take omega 3-eggs, never liver. That...


Hi Low-Joe, I take omega 3-eggs, never liver. That reducing omega 6 and sugars is the most important step does not mean that AA food is not a concern in any way. I would suggest you to try another terrific antiinflamatory fat: extra virgin olive oil, which is full of polyphenols.

I think it is very difficult to give an advice for...


I think it is very difficult to give an advice for everybody. Even such nutritious foods like eggs & liver could be problematic for some people (on an regularly daily basis and in higher amounts), but I although would them recommend. It is the same as glucose for diabetics. A healthy person could handle them whereas an unhealthy person has a big problem with the same amount. Before I suffered from crohn`s disease I eat a lot of sweets (really a lot, the same goes for wheat) and not much of arachidonic acid containing foods. In my opinion, the problems are not the foods which contain AA but rather the foods which lead to the disease (sugar, vegetable oils and may be wheat) where you can’t handle AA accurately.

A healthy person should eat eggs and liver regularly but some people may be do better with lower AA diet.

Hi Stephan, great post, as always. Sorry, the fo...


Hi Stephan,

great post, as always.

Sorry, the following is bit oftopic.

Hi Adolfo,

do you still have any problems by eating food with a natural higher amount of AA, for example eggs & liver?

I’ve had written my experiences with eggs (AA) on this blog some time ago. A short summary: I’ve suffered from Crohn's disease (over 10 years). 3 years ago I started with Low Carb but I although reduced all polyunsaturated fats (Peat, Masterjohn), especially AA. So I didn’t eat eggs and liver only occasionally. After 2,5 years everything was fine, even the fistulas are cured completely. Then I started to reintroduce eggs (3 eggs per day). After 3 weeks the fistulas were inflamed again. SHOCK!!! That was always on LC. After that I decided to stop the egg consumption and to take some fish oil (3-4g daily, 1,2g DHA/EPA). 3-4 weeks after that, the fistulas were closed and cured. Several months later I decided to give the eggs a try again, because they are so nutritious, but now while taking some fish oil. 3 weeks later the fistulas were inflamed again.

After that I never eat an egg again, although I’m thinking that 3 eggs per day are not that much. After this 2,5 years on LC I decided to eat more carbs (because in my case the total amount of AA is very important, even on LC), like I do nowadays (about 200g/day from potatoes & sweet potatoes).

Some time later (after the egg consumption) I tried to eat liver (calf) on a regularly basis, that means 30-40g daily. Although while taking fish oil (3-4g daily, 1,2g DHA/EPA) the fistulas inflamed after 2-3 weeks. After that period I decided to take a little bit more fish oil (6g/day, 1,8g DHA/EPA) until the fistulas are closed and cured completely.

I know that pufas (tissue) have a long half life and that the total amount of AA on LC diet isn’t that important as on a normal high carb diet.
For example the following study:

Or an article of Masterjohn:
“The fatty acid changes were somewhat surprising. The level of arachidonic acid (AA) actually increased on the low-carb diet. DHA increased, but EPA and other omega-3 fatty acids decreased. The AA:EPA ratio, then, increased, while inflammation decreased – quite the opposite of what conventional theory would predict. Decreases in inflammation had no meaningful correlation with weight loss, but were in fact correlated with the AA level and the AA:EPA ratio! Again, just the opposite of what conventional theory would predict.” (

I’m knowing al lot of studies like that, but my own experience is, that once somebody suffers from a chronically disease (in my own case crohn`s disease), it is better to eat a low AA diet (although while eating LC) and so a low polyunsaturated fat diet (but with some DHA).

As for my fat sources I’m only eating pastured butter and coconut oil, no other vegetable oils, and taking a little bit fish oil (although the total pufa content, omega 3 & 6, of my diet since the last 3 years never exceeded 3%). Beside the fact that I`m not able to eat such nutritious foods like eggs and liver on a regularly basis, I feel fine. My own experience is, that saturated fats are safe even or straightly by chronically diseases like crohn`s disease.

Lovely greetings from Germany @ all!

Don't forget about oysters. They are probably...


Don't forget about oysters. They are probably also a good source of K2 and are definitely a great source of zinc.

I don't know if they are totally an alternative to liver but they are cultivated and not fed corn or soy.

Same goes for sea urchin. They are fed kelp which is also cultivated in cool ocean waters. Uni (raw sea urchin 'roe')is a great source of nutrients.

There are sustainably cultivated invertebrate alternatives to consuming mammalian flesh. If a person so chooses.

When I say here in Europe..I live in Madrid, spani...


When I say here in Europe..I live in Madrid, spanish mediterranean coast and visit frequently Barcelona (all in Spain). Here you can find organic goji even in some big supermarkets where there are organic foods, diet products and similar. And I sell here nutritional supplements made in USA -and I am health journalist-, and many customers ask me about goji lol. Acai, noni, mangosteen are all in the same position of 'superfoods' as understood by customers-citizens. Since they have a lot of polyphenols I like them but I dont consider them a miracle or essential food or similar. I confess in my kitchen there is organic goji berries but I have so many foods in my kitchen! Superfood, interesting term, maybe for me fish oil (now I love also coconut oil lol), berries in general, brocoli and extra virgin olive oil, for me only then a long chain saturated fat like organic butter in fats field. Yeah, I have a very deep hatred to AA :)

Hi Adolfo, Hmm. I never heard of them in France....


Hi Adolfo,

Hmm. I never heard of them in France. They used the plants to make fences in the UK. Not many people ate them there, although a few did. I can't speak for all of Europe though, maybe people ate them more in some places.

Liver is the most nutritious food on earth by far, so I will always recommend it despite the AA. PUFA balance is important, but it's not the only factor.


Don't worry about the butter, you can always use cream (just kidding-- that's a quote from Julia Childs). As for the liver, you might be able to get some of the same things by eating other organs such as kidney, heart and sweetbreads. Chicken's eggs are good too.

Stephan, I can't eat liver because I can'...



I can't eat liver because I can't stand the taste. I can eat many wierd things, but not liver. I have an alergic reaction when I eat butter. So am I doomed to bad nutrition?

Umm about goji, here in Europe goji is famous amon...


Umm about goji, here in Europe goji is famous among health conscious people. Every kind of berry like bluberries or blackberries is healthy dut to its polyphenols, obviously, and most probably goji is not worse or better. Liver? I would never take this high source of inflammatory arachidonic acid, when omega 3 enriched liver? :P Its boring being agree in all :)

Hi Francois, Here's a good review article fro...


Hi Francois,

Here's a good review article from 2008 that discusses the clinical trials:

The thing I like about the trial is they only include studies that used reliable methods for measuring insulin sensitivity (as opposed to HOMA-IR). The thing that irritates me about it is they really focus on the one study that did find SFA decreases insulin sensitivity. The studies overall show no significant effect of SFA on insulin sensitivity. I'll be discussing that in a post at some point.

Hi Pete,

I don't think I've written about superfoods. As far as I'm concerned, the only superfoods you need are liver, greens and pastured butter. All those exotic berries are a waste of money. Did you know that goji berries grow in Europe? They call them wolfberries and no one eats them. Ah, the power of marketing.

I would like to second Adolfo's point. We need...


I would like to second Adolfo's point. We need to be clearer about fish oil quantities. A tablespoon says nothing about the content in omega 3. Chris Masterjohn recommends not going over 1% which means that if you eat 2000 kcal 2 grams of omega 3 is plenty. I suppose it depends on weight and height too. The other point is of course to stop taking it if you come down with a flu, for example, to let your body fight the inflammation.

I would like to add to the anecdotes about malocclusion. I have two kids, they were breastfed until they stopped themselves. The boy was breastfed for longer (13 months) he refused to take the bottle at around 8 months when he went to the creche (he didn't want any kind of cup either) and he didn't want a pacifier after 6 months, but he's the one who had an overbite at around 3. He's almost 5 now, it seems to be getting better. My daughter stopped breastfeeding at 7 months, drank formula from a bottle after that until 1, had a pacifier until the age of 3 and a half and she's fine from that point of view.
It could be less K2, but he seems to have stronger, wider teeth. Also, he had a tight frenum and there has been a lot of teeth grinding at night too.

Thank you Anna for all your information on orthodontics.