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Preview: Comments on Life in Israel: a breath of fresh air

Comments on Life in Israel: a breath of fresh air





Updated: 2018-01-18T14:15:18.536+02:00

 



precisely

2007-07-17T03:44:00.000+03:00

precisely



thanks, David on the Lake. That explains why among...

2007-07-16T22:50:00.000+03:00

thanks, David on the Lake. That explains why among the chassidim this culture exists. They consider their chassidus, usually, as a malchus of sorts.



If u read the Rambam Hilchos Melachim the way he d...

2007-07-16T22:45:00.000+03:00

If u read the Rambam Hilchos Melachim the way he describes the way a king is supposed to be lavished...you'll see theres nothing new..with followers who see their Rebbe as a king..to go out of their way and lavish them..
Its up the Rav not to fall into the trappings of luxury..



i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with...

2007-07-16T22:25:00.000+03:00

i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with money either, but i dont think rabbis or community leaders should be living lavishly. not because it's wrong, but because the kind of poele i want as a leader are not interested in those things, and on the contrary are repulsed by shows of extravagance. you keep saying this is common by sfardim, i only know of one sfardi rabbi where this is the case, and there is a lot more at play than sfardi/ashkenaz.. there is politics.. and that changes everything.



rebel - there is nothing wrong with having money, ...

2007-07-16T20:15:00.000+03:00

rebel - there is nothing wrong with having money, spending money and using it to help Rabbis live respectably and honorably. My comment was just n the fact that in a community that does not normally do this, unlike by the sfardim, it is out of the ordinary...



Well Moroccans do not represent the whole Sephardi...

2007-07-16T19:09:00.000+03:00

Well Moroccans do not represent the whole Sephardic community. Turkish/Greek Jews have always been pretty well off and not only were they well off to build great institutions in their communities but they also built universities and hospitals in the cities that they live in. However everyone in that community is humble, they do not show off their wealth.
I don't see anything horrible if a rabbi drives a fancy car. He should go live like a hobo cause he is a rabbi? However a private jet is a bit pushing it.
I also don't see anything horrible about money. I am not saying bow down it and do avodah zarah but it's a useful tool (no money, no Torah). It's important to know how to use it, how to keep it, how to invest it and how to save it. To say that money is nothing is simply stupid.



I did not know that about the Baba Sali. That is v...

2007-07-16T15:00:00.000+03:00

I did not know that about the Baba Sali. That is very interesting. Thanks



yes today, but not in the past.the rabbis lived si...

2007-07-16T14:12:00.000+03:00

yes today, but not in the past.
the rabbis lived simply and were pious and thats what everyone expected of them. the public displays are kissing his hand or beign respectful, not shuls and cars. in fact there was no such as thing as big shuls, or big yeshivas, people lived simply.
i'll give you an example, baba sali wasnt that well known to all morocans (eventhough he lived there) until he got to israel. he wasnt any less holy, but the whole ruckus was made in israel..



did they live just as poorly because the wole soci...

2007-07-16T06:36:00.000+03:00

did they live just as poorly because the wole society was poor? As soon as they became wealthy the community would then lavish the Rav/shul with wealth?


I do not know that the sfardi rabbonim live wealthy. I think most do not, with few exceptions. I think it is only public displays, such as a luxury car or a fancy shul, or stuff like that....



"the litvishe community never treated its rabbonim...

2007-07-16T06:25:00.000+03:00

"the litvishe community never treated its rabbonim this way before. These types of things were in the sefardic and hassidic communities but not in the litvishe. "
i have no idea about hassidic communities, but 'in the past' sfardi rabbis lived as poorly and simply as the common folk.. im not sure where you are getting this from, but it's so way off.
it's funny but i would say if the sfardim do it today, it's cuz they copied it from someone else.. it sure wasnt in our ways to behave this way.. real kavod doesnt come from the pocket, real kavod sfardim always had (and still have)for their rabbis.. the financial showing off is something new..and im just as curious as you to know where it comes from



There are some shuls I do not daven in because I w...

2007-07-16T01:07:00.000+03:00

There are some shuls I do not daven in because I was turned off by the way they treat the rav like a chassidishe rebbe.

Thank you!!!! Same here!!!



When I flew here on the plane, the bobover rebbe w...

2007-07-15T16:14:00.000+03:00

When I flew here on the plane, the bobover rebbe was on the plane as well. He had about 8 or so chasidim with him.

The Lubavitcher rebbe had a cadilac but it was a older model and it was nothing fancy.

According to halacha though a leader has to conduct himself nicely.



thanks, bluke. I am surprised that I remembered co...

2007-07-15T12:35:00.000+03:00

thanks, bluke. I am surprised that I remembered correctly. I have such a bad memory.....

Anyways, again, my point was not to criticize those who do. Especially in communities where that is the norm for whatever reason (like by chassidim). It was just to comment how nice it was to see someone reject the wastefullness. Especially if he has some chassidic leanings, it is especially unusual.



It was R' Aharon who is coming to Israel soon. Thi...

2007-07-15T11:54:00.000+03:00

It was R' Aharon who is coming to Israel soon. This was reported in the Mishpacha newspaper.



don't remember. I am inclined to say Reb Aharon, b...

2007-07-15T11:42:00.000+03:00

don't remember. I am inclined to say Reb Aharon, but that is just what I think I remember from the article a couple of weeks ago.
That was just one example. A couple of months ago there was the kiddush cup donated that was worth something like $100,000. There are plenty of other examples.



B"H WHICH Satmar Rebbe? Curiouser and curiouser....

2007-07-15T11:34:00.000+03:00

B"H WHICH Satmar Rebbe? Curiouser and curiouser....



actually I think he is hungarian. But most of, or ...

2007-07-15T10:18:00.000+03:00

actually I think he is hungarian. But most of, or at least many of, his followers are also in the litvishe community.



BTW - Rav Wosner is chasidish...

2007-07-15T10:04:00.000+03:00

BTW - Rav Wosner is chasidish...



but I should add that I am not criticizing anyone....

2007-07-15T09:24:00.000+03:00

but I should add that I am not criticizing anyone. not the guy who offered it and not the rabbonim who previously have accepted such treats.
I was just talking about the phenomenon we find of this happening and how I find it refreshing that a big name Rav rejected such an offer/



it bothers me that we consider that necessary. it ...

2007-07-15T09:23:00.000+03:00

it bothers me that we consider that necessary. it creates a form of keeping up with the schwartzes (or joneses).

There are number of aspects I think that make me unconmfortable.
1)They are quick to make takkanos of how many people you can invite to your wedding, but they have no problem letting people rush to spend tens of thousands of dollars needlessly on a private plane. Is a first class seat not good enough? business class? Does the Rav really need a private plane?

2) it also makes me uncomfortable that when teaching minimalist approaches - pas b'melach toachal, etc... we can then find it in us to not be so minimalist.

3)is that really kavod hatorah? does kavod hatorah demand so much money to be wasted? a private plane? come on

4) the aspect I discussed in the post which was the fact that the litvishe community never treated its rabbonim this way before. These types of things were in the sefardic and hassidic communities but not in the litvishe. One can find many examples of this in everyday life, not just sponsoring a private plane for a rav who wants/needs to take a trip. Go to many litvishe shuls nowadays and you will see what I mean. There are some shuls I do not daven in because I was turned off by the way they treat the rav like a chassidishe rebbe. If I wanted that I would go to the local shteibel.



What about showing Kavod Hatorah? It bothers you t...

2007-07-15T09:13:00.000+03:00

What about showing Kavod Hatorah? It bothers you that people who have the means (now more than in previous generations , perhaps) cannot bestow kavod on gedolim?