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Preview: Comments on Althouse: Let's take a closer look at those breasts.

Comments on Althouse: Let's take a closer look at those breasts.





Updated: 2018-02-25T14:46:36.367-06:00

 



Well, it's time to close up the old mail bag. I th...

2006-09-16T22:45:00.001-05:00

Well, it's time to close up the old mail bag. I think it's safe to say what was going to get said has been said by now, with lots of repetition too. I'm tired of the vitriol, and the willingness of you purportedly feminist characters to say all sorts of sexist things has been demonstrated ad nauseam, as has your pathetic lack of humor. Efforts to make us forget about the real topic have failed, and I'm tired of pointing that out. So, that's it for this long, long comment thread.



Ann Althouse, you said: You think Jessica is prett...

2006-09-16T22:45:00.000-05:00

Ann Althouse, you said: You think Jessica is pretty. It's a subjective thing. Granted. (And perhaps its the picture and not her - like maybe it's her 'good' side or she had a good hair day or whatever, or only in that picture.) But then again, I read scientific reports, probably in places like Time or Newsweek or National Geographic that state that there is also some universally acknowledged ideas about what is considered pretty, across many cultures and races - I think a symetrical face and smile was one. But I really don't know so thats as far as all take it.Then you said: It's something I've been avoiding talking about, So then, you think she's pretty too? Then you said: other than to note that in her blog portrait, she strongly resembles Paula Jones,Paula who? Oh. Paula Jones. Of all the brunette women in the world you compare her with her? Yeck. I don't think so. There are a million pretty brunette girls with pretty looking smiles that she could be compared with, a million. And you pick the most disgusting one? Why? Then you said: whom you presumably find extraordinarily pretty. I don't think so. Oops, remember, its a subjective thing. Nothing against Paula Jones, per se, but I really never thought of her as pretty. Yeck. I probably hadn't thought of her since I last saw her in a news cast, which would have been many years ago. The fact that you pulled her image as a comparison out of thin air makes me think perhaps you think she's attractive. But thats okay though - its a subjective thing. Then you said: But, really, are you a feminist if you think the best looking people deserve special power? I never claimed I was a feminist. I merely claimed that I wanted to learn more about it. I really don't understand it, where all of its motives came from, where it stands, where it is going. All philosophies have cores where they are strong and peripheries where they are week (what in economics they call the margins). I wanted to understand some of the nature about all of this concerning feminism. In general though, I am a Democrat (my political philosophy is generally shaped by my watching the movie "It's a wonderful life for the first time round about December 1987. In general I am for empowerment of the individual, regardless of geneder. I don't think it is fair that attractive people should have special power and I don't think that they deserve it. What I was suggesting is that it is a fact of life. If it wasn't a huge percentage of the population wouldn't even bother bathing, wearing clean clothes, combing their hair, picking their clothes out with discretion. If aesthetics had no power, their would be no art museums, no fashions, we might all dress like castro. The fact is most of us bathe every day, comb our hair, brush or teeth, wear deoderant, and wear cloths. A slovernly person has less power then some one who isn't. I see your picture to the left here - your hair is combed, your face is clean, you look neat, clean and attractive and are even sporting a bit of a smile. Now I am wonderin, given your comments, why you would even bother. The other end of this extreme is to come in at the Muslim extremist idea - that all women should be covered in burkas. That completely takes the issue of female aesthetics out of the question. But then why stop there, we can have all men where burkas, but then why stop there, we can everyone where platforms that take their hight up to 7 feet tall, then we'll never be able to prejudice anyone by their relation to their physical attributes. You said: I'll answer that. No, you're not. You have admitted to a very strong point of anti-feminism. Well, my problem is I really don't know what feminism is. I am here trying to understand it and to appreciate it better. I can say, I will be visiting Jessica's site more often to get a better view of it. You said: Why didn't you notice that you were doing that? I'll answer that. Because you were so hot to defend your partisan side that you were blinded to the obvious. Well actually I am not sure what par[...]



Rational: That wasn't very rational. I'm not again...

2006-09-16T22:36:00.000-05:00

Rational: That wasn't very rational. I'm not against breasts and I certainly don't favor discriminating against women because of what they look like. How you can read that into my comments is beyond me. I think it's perfectly fine for women to dress and stand in a way that flatters their figure. But some judgment is called for in a professional setting about what to wear and so on. Everyone knows that. Don't play dumb. It shows.



Gee Johnny, dems vote overwhelmingly to treat fana...

2006-09-16T22:31:00.000-05:00

Gee Johnny, dems vote overwhelmingly to treat fanatical Muslim combatants as regular uniformed troops as per Geneva Convention rules , which of course THEY couldnt' give a fig about, and you wonder why people accuse Dem's of sympathizing with terrorists?

Oh my. The point of my post was to refute the ridiculous claim that vitriol was more endemic to people on the political left as opposed to the right. Lo and behold, you come along and verify everything I was saying.

If you want to continue the debate about Jessica and Clinton, you should. But don't try to claim, as the previous poster did, and you are now, that vitriol is the exclusive domain of the left. Your post is full of it, and, not surprisingly, not full of reason and logic.

If you want to continue this debate that doesn't involve Ann Althouse and her problems with pretty liberal bloggers meeting with Bill Clinton, email me at johnnyvento@gmail.com

Sorry to clog up the thread Ann



Surgical Solution is right: women with big boobs g...

2006-09-16T22:28:00.000-05:00

Surgical Solution is right: women with big boobs get read as slutty regardless of how they stand/dress/speak/act. When I worked as a camp counselor I saw this happen to one of the girls at camp who was 15 years old and a bit of an early bloomer. It was really disgusting how some of the adults read sexuality into everything she said and did, just because of the way her body was shaped.

In a sense I'm glad to hear that breast reduction makes people stop with all that catty shit, but in another sense, I am horrified that anyone has to have *surgery* in order to get the respect due to them.

I doubt this will change the mind of Ann or her supporters, but I hope Surgical Solution reads it. Because she's right, and deserves to be acknowledged.



Bill Clinton was not an ideal president. I was too...

2006-09-16T22:15:00.000-05:00

Bill Clinton was not an ideal president. I was too young to notice when the Monicagate occurred, but sexual harrassment has always been a serious and close-to-home issue with me. Therefore I can't condone his obvious abuse of power and position since it was fundamentally anti-feminist. I don't believe, however, that Bill Clinton is anti-feminist. Feminism goes beyond fighting sexual harassment, as serious as it is. Clinton's presidency is forever tarnished by his crimes. Yes, shame on him for that (and his leftist apologists). But aren't we too early in forgetting all the progress his presidency brought that in many ways affected both domestic and international economic and political situations? During the Clinton presidency, peace in the Middle East was fathomable and some (not all) genocides were either avoided or stopped.

The anti-feminist crimes of Clinton were serious, but what about the anti-feminist crimes of Bush? If this is the way you treat Clinton, then the only fair way to treat Bush after his presidency would be to pull spitroast him over a fire and stick his head on a pole for everyone to see.

Having said that, I don't find it in any way compromising that Jessica Valenti would meet Clinton. I would not turn down the chance to lunch with George Bush, Osama bin Laden or Hitler himself. Granted, Osama bin Laden and Hitler would probably not agree to a lunch with a liberal black feminist, but my point is that why must everyone assume that Jessica is Clinton's biggest fan, and has nothing against his crimes?

As for the "breastlogging" comments. I think only people who are looking for breasts will notice the breasts on the Feministing site. It's not as if there are big round uncovered boobs flashing on every corner. When there's a picture of a woman's T-Shirt, the breasts are going to appear, plain and simple. So the site has a lot of women showing off their T-shirts. Guess the logos should go on the back, or maybe the belly area.

Or maybe they should just print the logos on a placard and hold it over their heads while wearing burqas, so that you have absolutely no clue about the women's apparent femininity.



Gee Johnny, dems vote overwhelmingly to treat fana...

2006-09-16T22:12:00.000-05:00

Gee Johnny, dems vote overwhelmingly to treat fanatical Muslim combatants as regular uniformed troops as per Geneva Convention rules , which of course THEY couldnt' give a fig about, and you wonder why people accuse Dem's of sympathizing with terrorists?



So, Ann, read any good books lately?

2006-09-16T22:11:00.000-05:00

So, Ann, read any good books lately?



Well, Norah, I stand by everything I've written. I...

2006-09-16T21:23:00.000-05:00

Well, Norah, I stand by everything I've written. I think Jessica sought attention, acted wounded that anyone noticed her breasts, and it was hysterical that her blog turned out to be one of those blogs that is full of closeups and exaggerated depictions of breasts. If you don't see why that is funny and hypocritical, I am guessing you are one of the many political partisans who are perseverating in this thread, trying to keep anyone from talking about the ridiculous fawning over President Clinton. But it's not working. It's obvious what you are doing. Your solicitude for Jessica's feeling is not credible. I mean, seriously. Talk about her blog. How do you like that as a representation of feminism?'

opendna: The breasts I'm talking about are the pictures on Jessica's blog. If those were visible in the workplace, that would create a hostile environment. If Jessica were displaying those images in my workplace, I would object, probably using the word "breasts" to describe the problem. Glad you're concerned about it. I'm also concerned about the way women who claim to be feminists fawn over Clinton. How do you feel about Clinton and sexual harassment? Just asking.



I'm curious if "Let's take a closer look at those ...

2006-09-16T21:09:00.000-05:00

I'm curious if "Let's take a closer look at those breasts" would constitute sexual harassment if said in the workplace.

You are, of course, the "formidable law blogger Ann Althouse", so what is your professional legal opinion?

If a young woman came to you and said her boss had said those words to her, would you suggest she shut up and move on or might there be grounds for harassment? "Harassment requires a pattern of behavior" right? Does "twice" count as a pattern?

These are all leading questions, of course. The last one sounds like "In light of your comments which may or may not border on sexual harassment, do you believe you upholding the ethical standards of your profession?"

Just asking.



Duh, Jessica, not Jill.

2006-09-16T21:03:00.000-05:00

Duh, Jessica, not Jill.



Jill did not show up in the comments "demanding" a...

2006-09-16T21:02:00.000-05:00

Jill did not show up in the comments "demanding" attention...she only showed up to defend herself after your commenters began making snarky noises about "the intern" and her cleavage.

Ms. Althouse, I'm not a regular reader of this blog or of Jessica's, but this just sucks. You've taken the low road at every opportunity and you should be ashamed of the way you've acted.



the issue for me is Clinton and the embarrassing f...

2006-09-16T20:56:00.000-05:00

the issue for me is Clinton and the embarrassing fawning of these bloggers

They're not embarassed. Why are you? What you should be embarassed about is the number of your countrymen who support a president who lied them into a war in which tens of thousands of people have died. That's a post I'd read.

And, if this post is really about Clinton then I'll assume from your title, 'Let's take a closer look at those breasts', that we are supposed to be examining his breasts then?

Just keep digging yourself into that hole but don't complain when it's lonely and dark in there.



Nice rack!

2006-09-16T20:46:00.000-05:00

Nice rack!



Johnny: This post was written to address precisely...

2006-09-16T20:40:00.000-05:00

Johnny: This post was written to address precisely that question. Go back and compare the original post, which focused on my topic. Jessica showed up in the comments and essentially demanded that we focus on her. I then wrote this post to do that. In writing it, I checked out her blog and was floored by the hypocrisy. The whole look at my breasts/don't look at my breasts business is a big laugh in my opinion. When I laughed a lot of people got mad. But I'm still laughing, now not just at her but at all of you folks who participated in this bogus protection of her. She sought attention and she's plainly a hypocrite. I pointed that out. Deal with it. Look at her blog. Come on, man, it's a joke. You have a brain. Don't be a fool.



The problem is, Jessica did nothing wrong, in term...

2006-09-16T20:38:00.000-05:00

The problem is, Jessica did nothing wrong, in terms of actual behavior.

You are trying to impugn her by acting as if you know her thoughts and motives, which are of course unknowable. You are making inferences based on a photograph, which is laughable.

That is why you are getting laughed at.



You just said it yourself.The issue for you is Cli...

2006-09-16T20:32:00.000-05:00

You just said it yourself.

The issue for you is Clinton, but you are taking it out on Jessica.

Why?



Good grief. I've never seen so much vitriolic BS i...

2006-09-16T20:27:00.000-05:00

Good grief. I've never seen so much vitriolic BS in one place before. (Is it obvious I don't read Kos or DU?). It's disheartening to see that so many adult 'visitors' are not only incapable of comprehending a post's basic point, but that they also feel compelled to crudely and profanely verbally vomit all over everything - especially themselves. The silver lining? I'll use this post as a teaching tool for my 2 daughters to illustrate one difference between the right and the left. I'll simply have them read each comment, and identify the commenter's party affiliation. I anticipate near-perfect scores for them both.



Sorry, Johnny. I stand by every word I've written....

2006-09-16T20:21:00.000-05:00

Sorry, Johnny. I stand by every word I've written. And I can see what you and others are doing. You're setting up a smokescreen and ignoring the real issue. It doesn't matter how many times you try to change the subject, the issue for me is Clinton and the embarrassing fawning of these bloggers. I'm completely unimpressed by everyone who fails to face the issue head on. I've asked you folks to address my concern again and again, and you just keep showing me that you won't, which has come to mean to me that you can't.

JackGoff: "IT'S A FUCKING PICTURE, FER CRYING OUT LOUD."

Sheer genius, Jack. So if something's in a picture, it doesn't exist in any other way? Good thing you put it in caps and added obscenity, cuz that makes it more true. Have another drink and pack it in.



Ann Altouse,You are attacking a woman for no reaso...

2006-09-16T20:12:00.000-05:00

Ann Altouse,

You are attacking a woman for no reason, and you fail to see the irony of the situation. Everyone else reading about this story sees it and therefore is laughing at you. The comments about interns and blue dresses and berets are gratuitous and untoward, as well as unsophisticated, condescending, and petulant.



Natalia said.."So... You're basically ticked off t...

2006-09-16T19:47:00.000-05:00

Natalia said.."So... You're basically ticked off that this woman and her politics ot some attention, and you're trying to cover that up with a lame "oh no she has breasts and you can sorta see their outline in this photo, so that means she's a cheapskate skank and an affront to feminism.""

Uhh.... no. And that's completely incoherent. What the hell are you trying to say? Ever heard of proofreading... and, uh, like, thinking? And that reading thing too. I kinda like you know recommend it.

"P.S. Automatically assuming that everyone who disagrees with you somehow support the shots levelled at Katherine Harris is just silly. Although overall, I'd take Jon Stewart over your mindless posturing any day."

Duh... do you think you could get everything you write backwards? It could be pretty amazing.



So... You're basically ticked off that this woman ...

2006-09-16T19:40:00.000-05:00

So... You're basically ticked off that this woman and her politics ot some attention, and you're trying to cover that up with a lame "oh no she has breasts and you can sorta see their outline in this photo, so that means she's a cheapskate skank and an affront to feminism."

In related news, I hear the Taliban are taking applications for a new spokesperson. This could really be your chance at the big-time!

P.S. Automatically assuming that everyone who disagrees with you somehow support the shots levelled at Katherine Harris is just silly. Although overall, I'd take Jon Stewart over your mindless posturing any day.



As if your initial posts weren't bad enough, you'r...

2006-09-16T19:25:00.000-05:00

As if your initial posts weren't bad enough, you're really covering yourself in shame in these comments, Ms. Althouse.

This is really rather unseemly of you.



I'm serious:Am I correct in saying that your opini...

2006-09-16T19:08:00.000-05:00

I'm serious:
Am I correct in saying that your opinion is that 'true feminists don't pose?'

I'm sarcastic:
We're going under the assumption that what's inside is more important than what's outside, right?

...I'll write that one down next to "cheaters never win" and "a bully will always back down when you stand up to him, (or her)."

PS- Harris? I mean, smoke 'em if ya got em... a vote's a vote. Win anyway you can, if the "means" really matters to you than you're just a younger brother (or sister) trying to live up to the first born in the family.



Libby, excuse me, I thought you'd been reading the...

2006-09-16T18:48:00.000-05:00

Libby, excuse me, I thought you'd been reading the entire thread all long like I was. Does docweasel have to give you the Cliff Notes version of feminism 101 AGAIN?? Even us vaginally-challenged, stupid males have gotten that message. Why do you choose to ignore the meat of the Clinton/Lewinsky scandal instead of focusing AGAIN on BJ's by willing participants? Could it be that you typify the unbelievably embarrarsing inabliity of establishment feminists to stare the facts in the eye? That Bill Clinton, The Big He, The Big Dog is untouchable when its Him that's committing the groping, the assault and the rape? Why don't your camp extend the same pass to Bob Packwood or Clarence Thomas, who NOBODY accused of rape or assault? Recall that Clinton's perjury was relevant to the Paula Jones lawsuit, in which she was trying to establish his pattern of behavior, NOT about whether the world gave a good goddamn about his private, consensual sexual affairs.

And since I'm not a woman you can't accuse me of being jealous, of having saggy tits, bad skin, or poor fashion taste. So instead you stoop to impugning my sagacity by alluding to my age. For your information I was born in 1955 and have seen my share of shameless behavior on the part of politicians, thank you very much.