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Climate science from climate scientists...



Last Build Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:34:00 +0000

 



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by zebra

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:34:00 +0000

Nigel 203, You seem to believe that you have proposed some counterargument to my proposition ("Zebra's Hypothesis", in the future) that a declining population produces a non-linear benefit in reducing CO2 and other environmental insults. And you also claim others have as well. But I don't recall any such. I think you once said that NZ had environmental issues, but NZ has a growing population as far as I know. And NZ illustrates one of the fundamental components of my argument-- which is that people tend to choose to concentrate geographically. You have lots of land relative to the population (so far), but something like 3/4 of the people live in one city, correct? So, I don't know how you justify your disagreement. If you think the effect of ZH is small, please explain why. I go by obvious data, like the difference in per-capita energy consumption between the US and Europe. An obvious contribution to that is the higher density. I'm talking about what we observe in economic (in the broad sense) behavior. What are you talking about? As for morality, ethics, and so on: Please, this has been discussed to death by real philosophers-- it is a meaningless concept because different groups of people can hold diametrically opposed opinions about "what is moral".



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Mr. Know It All

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 06:32:30 +0000

In addition to Mike's regular CO2 readings, I have found another indicator of the seriousness of global warming - sea level. You can monitor it at this website. When the white sand disappears, start worrying: (daylight at this indicator site is 12 hours ahead of the Pacific Time Zone - west coast of the USA). https://www.skylinewebcams.com/en/webcam/maldives/lhaviyani-atoll/kurendhoo/maldives-kuredu.html :)



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Mr. Know It All

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 06:17:36 +0000

207 - Hank R Hank, that's awful about Trump destroying that satellite, but I have good news about it. Mans ability to monitor polar ice has not been harmed. You can enjoy your Thanksgiving dinner after all. Read on: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2017/11/trump-wrongly-blamed-for-destroying-sea-ice-satellite/



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Thomas

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 04:51:06 +0000

195 MA Rodger, according to the 'data' the last 4 years 2017, 2016, 2015 and 2014 are the four warmest years "on record" and also have the distinction of being the highest global records for CO2/CO2e levels in the atmosphere (and oceans) for many millions of years. So much for that "pause" and world getting cooler or emissions being reduced or sittin' under +2C on pre-industrial levels. hehehe.



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Thomas

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 04:44:36 +0000

BPL please note "laggard" in http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2017/11/unforced-variations-nov-2017/comment-page-4/#comment-686688 I think every nation should ignore the "laggard" on every subject. "I have a dream ..." MLK :-)



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Thomas

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 04:39:39 +0000

People are asking was KIA casing the wealthy neighbourhood on his pushy?



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Thomas

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 04:26:46 +0000

BPL: But it’s the US that is the “global bully.” Yeah. You got it! Finally. :-) Remember Kyoto? All those between Kyoto and Copenhagen? Remember who has pulled out of that? That's the tip of the iceberg as far as climate science agw climate change belligerance and bullying is concerned for decades. then there's all the other topics one could easily muster up as never-ending examples. But who cares when Whataboutery is so much more eclectic debating fun, right? ;-)



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Nemesis

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 04:20:30 +0000

@Mr KIA, #212 " Thus, the wealthier folks seemed to have a smaller footprint." Oh, that's good news, as most people on the planet are pretty wealthy, so they can afford renewable energy easily. Yes, we are on a wonderful way. I love capitalism :)



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by Killian

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 02:38:01 +0000

#202 Kevin McKinney said Killian: “Looking at you, Kevin McKinney. You’re right that you can’t do simplicity as long as you choose to give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s rather than create what Ceasar cannot.” Fine. As I said, I’m all ears for practical solutions I (and others) can implement now. Everything I talk about already is in existence. Scale takes time, wider awareness, but it is already present. All of it. It is all practical. That is the very nature of permaculture and regenerative practices. It is all doable: It is being done. Also for ones that might have a chance for implementation at scale in the nearish future–say the next couple of decades. Only thing stopping you is you. You are afraid to, so you don't. Letting go is key. Opt out. It will all be, and is now, non-linear. Early adopters will suffer most, but somebody must begin. Create a neighborhood organization. Share. Perhaps a Land Trust. Throw it all in one pot. Just do it. Be prepared to stand against hte police, banks, etc., if they come to foreclose. It must be this way. I like the your first principles in many ways. But I feel like we’re long overdue for some “reasoning from there." Yes, most are overdue. Not all. Stop waiting for Superman; he's never coming.



Comment on Unforced variations: Nov 2017 by nigelj

Wed, 22 Nov 2017 02:08:21 +0000

Steven Sullivan @210 "None of the national discussion in the USA about climate change is going to be driven by the tedious, petty internecine debates you guys are having here. It’s going to be driven by the right-wing ideologue strategies and tactics exposed in Joe Bast’s email, that Russell linked to up there. READ IT." Thank's for the link. Discussion here is wide ranging, as it properly should be. If it's of no interest to you, go away. Some disagreement is healthy, and the last hing we want is an image of being a website of "yes men" who agree on everything. Yes the wider national discussion is certainly at risk of being captured by right wing ideology. I would suggest of the more extreme kind, and don't wish to imply everyone who leans right is a climate denialist. I had a read of your link. Your link has the usual collection of climate change denialist nonsense, so much of it misleading, plus a few new tricks. Virtually everyone on this website has been reading much the same stuff for years now. It's not as if we are unaware, and not concerned. The climate science community and people worried about climate change in general can only warn people of the problem, as is done to high standard in IPCC reports. We cannot force idiots to see the problem.They can only convince the middle ground people, and this can only be done with calm reasoned, fact based argument. If climate scientists loose their cool, its game over, although I would suggest climate science community could be more urgent in rhetoric at times, and call out some of these sceptics as talking idiocy. But you have to be careful not to get too emotive, or over do this. If you have a better strategy I'm all ears. The "CO2 is plantfood" statement is one of those annoying, disarming things devised by clever, devious, marketing type of person. There are already retorts to this, and the facts are that greening effect comes up against limits, and higher temperatures eventually reduce crop productivity. This of course gets "wordy", but you can abbreviate it to saying too much of anything has serious downsides, and go into detail from there as required by the circumstances. So much of this climate thing is driven by politics and ideology. Most countries have the brains to accept compromise, and middle ground, and some shared policies. America is going in the other direction into an ideological war zone, with a political right wing currently in the White House and Congress and Senate plus various so called 'institutes' that are very irrational and entrenched in their world view, and in total denial about several things. How the hell do you expect us to fix that?