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Preview: Comments on Weight of the Evidence: The Solar Powered Plate

Comments on Weight of the Evidence: The Solar Powered Plate





Updated: 2017-12-10T18:16:07.682-06:00

 



Interesting point of view, but there's a fatal fla...

2008-12-03T13:02:00.000-06:00

Interesting point of view, but there's a fatal flaw in your argument. There is simply nowhere near enough pasture land to accommodate the animals required for everyone who currently eats factory farmed meat to make that switch (not to mention all the people in developing countries who don't eat much meat now, but aspire to our 'standard of living' and will soon be clamoring for meat). A few hundred years ago, that would have been possible. Now the earth just has too many people for that to work. If we used all the available pasture land that is not fit for growing crops, we could ration out the resulting meat, but you won't be getting enough to have for dinner every night. The reason we need to use land that can be cultivated for crops (using sustainable methods of course) is that we can get much higher yields in terms of calories and nutrients from vegetables, fruits, and grains than we could from animals raised on the same area of land. Americans' current rate of meat consumption is only possible due to factory farms. Since population is not likely to decline in the foreseeable future, eating less meat really is the only way to be green and sustainable. And yes, when you eat meat, it should be pasture raised.



i haven't the time to sign up, but ALL these anony...

2008-12-01T20:27:00.000-06:00

i haven't the time to sign up, but ALL these anonymous people talking about vegan lifestyles.

to the person who suggested killing my own meat... been there, done it, ATE IT.

to the person suggesting I will die sooner than them... I don't believe I've ever met a 100 year old vegan.

"Anyone who can't see the horror of killing for food simply won't stop eating meat. You're living proof of this. KILLER" not even going to being explaining why the logic behind this is pure idiocy

blogger: the idea of a solar powered meal... sublime. loved the rant, keep them up. favourited x



most of them are sort of like that new york guy......

2008-05-27T13:09:00.000-05:00

most of them are sort of like that new york guy...client # WTF.....always seems the holier than thou peeps are the biggest hypocrites



I don't see how eating meat is "gluttonous," which...

2008-05-13T00:00:00.000-05:00

I don't see how eating meat is "gluttonous," which word implies that eating meat makes you fat. That is not my experience. The difference between me at 237 and me at below 220 wasn't cutting meat out of my diet, but cutting grain out. I found I could eat as much as 2900 calories a day, much of it meat and also fat of animal origin, and still drop weight like a stone. If that's "gluttonous," explain the weight loss.

The insulting part is I have Native American ancestry and these yahoos are telling me I should not eat the way my ancestors ate. WTH. That's why First Peoples have diabetes now. Because we are not built to eat wheat and corn and soy. Those foods make us SICK.

Another point: These same people freak out all over the place about deforestation, then they claim it occurs because of raising meat animals. Guess what? There's not a single meat animal you HAVE to raise on a pasture. Fact. You can even raise cattle under tree cover, I've seen it in agricultural magazines. There's a famous variety of pig in Spain that lives in oak forests, and just ask the people of California or Hawai'i where the pigs live. Read the old Greek myths about boar-hunting. It all takes place in FORESTS. Chickens are another one. They like tree cover a lot better than being out in the open; there are more plants and bugs they can eat.

Tilling large fields to grow crops kills more animals than raising meat animals does, if you use traditional methods. Furthermore, growing huge fields of grain destroys the environment by causing soil runoff and is directly responsible for the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico which is being fed by runoff from agricultural fields and their tons and tons of synthetic fertilizer. Extra fertilizer in the ocean + algae bloom = catastrophic loss of oxygen = lots of dead fish.

I could go on about this all day. I'm tired of these wackos lying to us. Actually if you want to get right down to it, the real problem in human food production versus the environment is there are just too many of us. Converting pastures to soy fields is not going to solve that problem. Guilt-tripping people who eat real human diets is not going to work either. Y'all go ahead and destroy your thyroids and your pancreas on your crap diet, but don't take it out on me.



I loved this post. I have such Weltschmerz when I ...

2008-05-07T23:02:00.000-05:00

I loved this post. I have such Weltschmerz when I think of the U.S. industrialized agriculture.



Consider that one of the more powerful yet stealth...

2008-05-04T23:05:00.000-05:00

Consider that one of the more powerful yet stealthy lobbies on the planet--not just in the USA, I mean on the PLANET--is that of chemical companies making 'terminator' seeds.

As long as we eat cows that we can breed, we have some degree of resistance to this.

The more we are totally dependent on plants, the more these seeds, and their "accidental" spreading to ordinary crops, stand the chance of making the entire human race totally dependent for food on the same companies that, for example, specialized in death-gas for the Nazi chambers.

I think relying on oil from homicidal people who hate us seems a little bit unreasonable, but I think relying on plants from homicidal companies who don't care enough about humans to hate them but have the ability and power to manipulate the world, is even more dangerous.

Hilarious vegan comments. I'm glad you let them through. When there is no more meat to eat, and the world realizes what a total humanity killing disaster that is, we can always eat the vegans.



Good grief - same old tired arguments from the veg...

2008-04-29T06:39:00.000-05:00

Good grief - same old tired arguments from the veggies. I can't believe we're not all dead from colon cancer and heart disease now.

Let me ask you veggies who linked eating meat to global warming...ahem..."climate change" - please SHOW that carbon is warming the planet with EMPIRICAL evidence. Go ahead.

It was probably a hit and run, but one can hope.

Great blog, Regina.



"Why is it that this mindset has become so dominan...

2008-04-29T01:27:00.000-05:00

"Why is it that this mindset has become so dominant?"

Because it sells stuff.

Global climate change used to sell air conditioners (Trane?) - that TV ad was a huge awakening for me!

Just like the low fat/high carb "prudent" diet and vegetarianism, once global warming/climate change became accepted to the masses (not everyone, but to enough of a critical mass), then it was engulfed by the commercial interests. Sadly, it seems there is no holding back anymore, to allow for continued discussion. It's Global Climate Change, or you have two heads.

I don't know if there is or isn't GCC, GW, or human induced global weather patterns, but I'd love to see more about all the views on it, not just the ones that have determined "it is so". Doesn't mean I don't think we need to conserve energy, reduce pollution, reduce consumerism, either, though I do, for other reasons.



Has anyone noticed that the people screaming about...

2008-04-28T13:55:00.000-05:00

Has anyone noticed that the people screaming about how we shouldn't eat meat are pretty much the same people screaming about how we need to fight "Global Climate Change" (NOT Global Warming anymore - hmm.)

You said in another post: "These findings speak volumes about the unintended consequences of good intentions that are based on dogma and assumptions rather than hard data. And when hard data points to the opposite of the assumptions and dogma, it's ignored."

There is plenty of science debunking man-made global warming, too, but that also gets ignored. (For those who are interested, try: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/index.php?showtopic=2050
for a huge page of links on that subject)

I bring this up because I find the parallels amazing. Bad science is bad science - and it seems to me quite interesting that there is such an overlap in the groups trying to push bad science on us to advance their own agenda. It's all about the INTENTIONS - it doesn't matter whether it works or not, it doesn't matter whether it's true or not, as long as your INTENTIONS are good.

Why is it that this mindset has become so dominant?



Here is an example of people finding ways to get s...

2008-04-28T11:34:00.000-05:00

Here is an example of people finding ways to get sustainably, humanely raised meat from family farms at a reasonable price. It can be one!

http://www.ethicurean.com/2008/04/24/clark-summit-meat-club/



Wow! Some hilarious comments above. Regina, great...

2008-04-28T07:13:00.000-05:00

Wow! Some hilarious comments above. Regina, great article, I'll be linking it from my site.

Micheal Pollan covered some of the same issues in his new book, I was fascinated by the fact that there is MORE soil after a cow eats the grass because of the manure and earthworms. Truly a beautiful and simple system. I think I'm going to have a nice grass-fed beef burger at lunch!

Brian
Coach/Co-owner
www.potomaccrossfit.com



This will be short, but I posted about this on my ...

2008-04-27T16:28:00.000-05:00

This will be short, but I posted about this on my site more indepth.

The fact that people think we can stop eating beef is not only absurd, but the freed grain would then have to be given to the jobless people that not eating meat would cause.

You have to look at the economic benefit of this decision, too. Millions of people would lose their jobs if no one ate meat. You say well they could grow grain, well this is not the 1800's a single man can grown 1000's of acres of grain by himself. The area that it takes to raise the cattle and slaughter them would not be enough to generate enough revenue to even employ 1 out of 10,000 employees to help raise the crop.



"grass-fed" is the label to look for. And you want...

2008-04-26T12:02:00.000-05:00

"grass-fed" is the label to look for. And you want to remove "Hay & Silage [$]" from your equation and add water. The result with rotational grazing is Food & Organic Fertilizer & Improved Soil.

Guess what happens when vegans and their ethanol-powered Priuses are competing with birds, insects, small animals, and predators of said critters, for fields of grains and vegetables? Vegans 1, Biosphere 0! Vast swaths of cropland must be cleared of life for a vegan to eat. (The same argument applies to sustaining animals in CAFOs)



Great post, Regina!Hey, veg-heads - do try to reme...

2008-04-25T12:12:00.000-05:00

Great post, Regina!

Hey, veg-heads - do try to remember that we get our research from places that are simply trying to find the best path to health as opposed to using long-debunked "science" to buttress someone's dogma.

Most of the "health dangers" you bring up so readily are not supported by actual historical research. Studies have shown that some of the healthiest peoples in the world ate extremely high amounts of meat and fats.

Here's a place to start.
http://www.westonaprice.org/



Holy cow, the gree vegan trolls are out.Not only d...

2008-04-25T11:57:00.000-05:00

Holy cow, the gree vegan trolls are out.

Not only do they spew their nonsense about meat, but try to justify it by using the other bogus scare mongering of AGW (anthropogenic global warming).

Here some links to very interesting sites showing that the climate debate is far from being settled.

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/
http://www.climateaudit.org/
http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/
http://www.co2science.org/
and so on.

You've seen how nutrition science has been treated in the main stream, why not look at how climate science has been misrepresented.



Hey! I love your rants! You said it so beautiful."...

2008-04-25T10:36:00.000-05:00

Hey! I love your rants! You said it so beautiful." livestock that turns the energy of the sun into high quality food for human consumption"
I never thought about it that way, but I agree with the statement 100%.



Vegetarians = Ruthless MurderersEvery year million...

2008-04-24T19:59:00.000-05:00

Vegetarians = Ruthless Murderers

Every year millions of animals are murdered by combines harvesting grains. These animals are killed, non-humanely, in vain and not even made into a delicious steak.

If you really care about animals do the right thing, and cook them.



One of the things I have noticed when vegans and a...

2008-04-24T18:34:00.000-05:00

One of the things I have noticed when vegans and animal rights activists comment en masse on blogs (as in this case), is that they nearly uniformly demonstrate nearly no knowledge or understanding of animals, wild or livestock, which is rather ironic.

And after reading all these comments, I thought I'd put in a plug for a great book that would benefit just about everyone - meat eaters and vegans alike - Mistakes Were Made (but not by me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Hurtful Acts, and Bad Decisions. I have no connection to the book, publisher or authors, other than as a reader. But this book about cognitive dissonance goes a long way toward explaining the inexplicable tenacity of people to stick to their dogmas, no matter what the evidence says.



Great post, Regina.I often wonder if the really pa...

2008-04-24T14:36:00.000-05:00

Great post, Regina.

I often wonder if the really passionate animal activists (vegan or otherwise) have ever spent much time observing animals in their natural environment, or studying natural history/anthropology/evolutionary biology/zoology, etc. Or grew up on a working farm. Or even lived in the country/rural areas, where there was a lot of wildlife around.

Anyway. I'm all for hearing alternative points of view, but backing them up with established science would be nice. PCRM doesn't count.

BTW, have you seen PETA's "I Can't Believe It's Vegan" food guide? (I just blogged about it - shameless plug ;))A handy guide to vegan processed food. How on earth eating Pop Tarts and Cocoa Puffs (with non-fat soy milk, of course) is HELPING the environment, I can't fathom.

And rainforest areas, BTW, are cleared for soybeans as well. And rice paddies emit methane. Hmm. (So does the rainforest floor, when it's being churned up for soybean farms)



a link to a great blog posting on another hidden c...

2008-04-24T13:31:00.000-05:00

a link to a great blog posting on another hidden cost of CAFOs: http://www.ethicurean.com/2008/04/24/buck_the_cafo_tax/#more-2740

(with pictures of how things can be done differently)



It is sad but funny that none of those anti-meat p...

2008-04-24T12:06:00.000-05:00

It is sad but funny that none of those anti-meat posters actually READ what Regina had to say. They did not respond to her points, just regurgitated the same old platitudes, which she handily refuted in her blog before they even got here!

Read the book "The Hundred-Mile Diet" if your want to eat in a way that protects the environment - and then try doing it vegan, in Wisconsin, in January.....



I hunt for about a third of my family's meat. We ...

2008-04-24T04:17:00.000-05:00

I hunt for about a third of my family's meat. We buy the rest, almost entirely pasture-raised beef, pork, and chicken. Some grain was consumed to make the meat we eat (pigs eating corn in winter, also part of chicken feed in inclement weather), but nowhere close to the 8lbs/lb of a feedlot cow. The amount of water consumed growing wild animals and pasture-fed animals is also a small fraction of that consumed during the production of industrial meat. Finally, pasture-fed animals contribute their wastes back to the soil, closing the nitrogen cycle and reducing the need for fertilizer dramatically. Feedlot cattle poop is toxic waste and can't even be used as fertilizer due to the antibiotics and hormones contained within it.

A few vegans in the comments above have suggested that if I took responsibility for killing my own meat that I would lose the taste for meat. I originally tried hunting for exactly that reason. Didn't work out that way. Instead I became a hunting advocate because taking responsibility for my own food enhanced my appreciation for the caloric and health bounty of animal flesh.

I do feel a little sad for the dead animal when I'm looking down at it. But I know that I'll respect the animal by making as much use of it as possible, and that the animal already had a better life than could be found in any CAFO.

As for the "science" frequently quoted regarding the health benefits of a vegetarian/vegan diet... Argument by repeated assertion is not an argument. The frequently studied Seventh-Day Adventists and strict Mormons have equivalently low risk of health problems, but the Mormons are big into meat eating. Hint: something else is responsible for the health (possibly processed foods, which are avoided by both groups).

Incidentally, there have been no 100 year old vegetarians in the US. Invariably, those who live to 100 in this country eat meat and plenty of it.



Good grief, there's nothing more pathetic than an ...

2008-04-24T00:09:00.000-05:00

Good grief, there's nothing more pathetic than an orchestrated vegan-bombing.

Personally, I think the vegans should not only not eat any vegetable protein, they should eliminate 100% of the fat from their diets and completely reduce their carbon footprint. At least that way, we won't bankrupt medicare when they become seniors and are all being treated for heart disease, cancer, type II diabetes, etc... from a very high carbohydrate diet.



I am convinced that all vegans are mentally defect...

2008-04-23T22:55:00.000-05:00

I am convinced that all vegans are mentally defective. they really truely believe soy is a food oh boy are they in big trouble. the only way second generation vegan friends of mine could bring a successful pregancy to term was to start eating meat. fact.



A vegan just about went nuclear on me the other da...

2008-04-23T16:22:00.000-05:00

A vegan just about went nuclear on me the other day because I said I thought a lot of people, especially seniors, weren't getting enough protein. She insisted that WHO says nobody needs more than 50 g a day and anyone getting more is in danger of kidney disease and osteoporosis. Since those myths were disproved, I'm thinking maybe she isn't getting enough protein and fat to keep her brain functioning properly even though I know for a fact that she takes ten vegan DHA pills along with a multi and a B-12 every day to make up for the lack of meat (makes her queasy) and dairy (sent her to the ER in shock) in her diet. I understand her need to not eat most animal products (she does wear leather and eat gelatin) but she can't seem to understand my (and many others) need to eat a lot more than 50g. I think I heard of a study that said lack of adequate cholesterol tends to make people violent, too. Maybe I need to be careful about arguing with vegans.
I just know that even my prescribed ADA diet included 90 g of protein per day. Over the last few years while nearly doubling my animal protein intake I lost weight and lowered my cholesterol (if you subscribe to the cholesterol-heart disease theory, which I don't.) Eating more animal products has greatly improved my health.
BTW, those starving kids' big bellies are caused by inadequate protein in their diets.
So, don't eat meat, you'll leave more for me!