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Preview: Comments on TraderFeed: Disgust Yourself: A Framework For Rapid Behavior C...

Comments on TraderFeed: Disgust Yourself: A Framework For Rapid Behavior Change





Updated: 2016-08-14T03:34:09.589-05:00

 



Thanks Brett. I can certainly relate to that from...

2014-07-13T15:10:05.526-05:00

Thanks Brett.

I can certainly relate to that from personal experience.

Jeff



Yes, meditation can be extremely helpful, as can s...

2014-07-13T14:54:59.067-05:00

Yes, meditation can be extremely helpful, as can self-hypnosis and biofeedback training. None of those, of course, substitute for having a genuine, demonstrable edge in one's trading. Many of those destructive desires stem from frustration and much of frustration is attributable to trading randomness.

Brett



Thanks Brett Do you also advocate mindfulness and...

2014-07-13T12:01:14.409-05:00

Thanks Brett

Do you also advocate mindfulness and meditation as ways to eliminate the desires that often lead to destructive behavior?

Jeff



Totally agree, Jeff. Relying on willpower is frag...

2014-07-12T14:44:38.285-05:00

Totally agree, Jeff. Relying on willpower is fragile. A better strategy is to develop positive habit patterns to replace old, negative ones. Duhigg's book "The Power of Habit" is a good source. And, yes, trading hunches in a paper account and seeing if there's an edge there is a great way of gratifying a habit and also potentially extinguishing it. Thanks--

Brett



Hi Brett, What are your thoughts on the idea that...

2014-07-12T09:30:28.648-05:00

Hi Brett,

What are your thoughts on the idea that humans have a limited amount of willpower, so willpower alone cannot be relied upon to effect change?

Also, would you say that it's worth finding something non-destructive to do that gives the same pleasure as the destructive thing you crave? For example, when trading, if you have a hunch about a particular market, rather than risk real money you could place a trade with a dummy account and see what happens. That way, you'd get the pleasure of pitting your wits against the market without the cost of using real money to do so. Do you think that would work?

Jeff



Great post. A real pity it would not work on Wall...

2009-11-23T22:16:53.620-06:00

Great post.

A real pity it would not work on Wall Street for some urgently needed behavioural changes, for obvious reasons...



Hi English Teach,Great quote; thanks. There are m...

2007-04-13T07:03:00.000-05:00

Hi English Teach,

Great quote; thanks. There are many abused bosoms among traders!

Brett



...a great quote from Othello about how thoughts c...

2007-04-12T23:06:00.000-05:00

...a great quote from Othello about how thoughts can control emotion...

Othello, consumed by jealousy, questions his wife's maid, who knows Othello's wife is innocent and responds to his questions: "...amend thy thought, it doth abuse thy bosom."



Thanks, Wyn, I've experienced the same thing: disg...

2007-03-18T11:27:00.000-05:00

Thanks, Wyn, I've experienced the same thing: disgust can be quite a motivator!

Brett



An excellent article that I just discovered. Ofte...

2007-03-18T09:49:00.000-05:00

An excellent article that I just discovered. Often wondered about that, why when I am pissed or disgusted with myself and much more apt to trade to my fullest capabilites rather than when I have a nice winner and just sit watching the market.

Thanks for a most interesting post



Hi LifePost,That's one of the most insightful comm...

2007-03-13T08:02:00.000-05:00

Hi LifePost,

That's one of the most insightful comments I've seen in a long time. Many thanks. Your insight into "bigorexia" and the similarity to the stress many traders face is right on the money. The common thread is that we attach self esteem to the outcomes of what we do, whether it's bodybuilding or trading. I've found cognitive approaches to change to be especially helpful in dealing with such patterns. If any readers are interested in such methods and would like a professional counseling referral in their geographic area, feel free to email me and I'll do my best. One of the final chapters in my recent book has some self-help cognitive methods as well.

Brett



Nice post Dr.BThe same disgust occurs with bodybui...

2007-03-13T00:02:00.000-05:00

Nice post Dr.B

The same disgust occurs with bodybuilders afflected with bigorexia. I had it badly as a teenager, and it is truly a never ending addiction that you think about constantly. It can screw up your life, but to you, it is the only thing that matters. For some individuals it takes an extreme mind set to be the best at something. You can call it bigorexia, but I still see that I'm small when there is someone more muscular than me at the gym or as long as Ronnie Coleman is alive I will never big enough.(Visually seeing more muscular people than you makes you jealous and disgusted and makes you more determined and motivated to eat more and lift harder). As a trader, I'm still not good enough if I lost money today or someone made more money than me today, I could have made more, I did something wrong and I need to put in the time to learn and correct what I did wrong. With trading, the gym is reviewing your charts and recorded videos of the trading day.

As far as the IV drip induced naseua idea goes, I have a problem everyday. I experience the flight or fight response everyday during my trading, most of the time I get the adrenaline rush before I even enter the trade. My heart rate increases, I sweat, and the most annoying thing of all is having to piss 3 times in an hour. My adrenal glands are going to be wasted in a few years if I keep this up. When I first started trading over a year ago I never had this problem, but now my trading has become a fight everyday, where I worry about even a few ticks that go against me. It isn't a matter of position sizing either, because I get the same response trading 1 contract or even trading on the simulator. It's going to take time and practice to build up my confidence to correct this. I wish I had a mentor like you. Thanks for another great post.



Hi Jeff,I do think that such imagery work requires...

2007-03-12T20:39:00.000-05:00

Hi Jeff,

I do think that such imagery work requires some repetition and effort, but can be quite effective. Thanks for the comment!

Brett



Brilliant post and a most brilliant idea!The big q...

2007-03-12T13:28:00.000-05:00

Brilliant post and a most brilliant idea!
The big question, IMHO, is can a self administered "filling of our mind with thoughts and images" deliver a sufficient or behavioral impact, equivalent to that of "the force of gut physical disgust" that is required to modify a behavior, as you so wisely explained.



Hi Steve,You raise a great question; thanks for th...

2007-03-12T09:26:00.000-05:00

Hi Steve,

You raise a great question; thanks for the opportunity to elaborate. You'd want to focus your disgust upon process, not outcome. Hence, your disgust might be with your way of eating or your lack of exercise, not with your absolute weight level.

Similarly, as a trader, you'd focus your disgust on the process of trading (letting winners turn into losers), not your absolute P/L level.

Brett



Once the initial disgust has been used to initiate...

2007-03-12T08:42:00.000-05:00

Once the initial disgust has been used to initiate change, how do you then continue your motivation to complete the actions?

e.g. If I use disgust to finally begin losing needed weight, how do I continue to use disgust as the motivator once the original condition that started the process has changed?

A hypothetical – Say I weigh 300lbs. Clearly I need to change. I should weigh 180. I use disgust as my motivator to change my behaviors and I lose 50 pounds. Now I look better than I did and the original level of disgust at my 300lb aesthetics is gone. But I still haven’t achieved my 180lb goal. Do I reset my disgust level at 250 and keep doing that until I reach 180lbs?

Or when I’m 300lbs, is anything heavier than 180lbs the continued sole disgust motivation until I reach my goal weight? Wouldn’t beating up oneself for the time necessary to lose such a large amount of weight be potentially very damaging to one’s self?



Thanks for the comments. It takes a certain amoun...

2007-03-12T08:05:00.000-05:00

Thanks for the comments. It takes a certain amount of self esteem to be disgusted with your own actions. As Nietzsche pointed out, the person who hates himself esteems the self that does the hating.

Brett



Wow. I became quite disgusted just reading it. S...

2007-03-12T01:16:00.000-05:00

Wow. I became quite disgusted just reading it. Seriously. I think this emotion can be a great tool and I like how your approach uses emotions to work for the trader instead of just trying to shut them down.

BW



Bravo Dr. Brett!A fine and interesting post. I la...

2007-03-12T00:37:00.000-05:00

Bravo Dr. Brett!

A fine and interesting post. I laughed at the "Clockwork Orange" scenario...within a trading framework of course.

Marc



Excellent.

2007-03-11T21:11:00.000-05:00

Excellent.