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Comments on field negro: We are civilized Xenophobes.





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I read a post by Sokari over at Black Looks the o...

2008-06-05T12:20:00.000-04:00

I read a post by Sokari over at Black Looks the other day that linked to a list of the main points being raised to examine the anti-immigrant attitudes and actions in South Africa. With a change of only a couple of words, they could have been talking about the U.S. It was weird to read and realize how global this issue is. Neo-liberalism is a baaaaaad thing.



Is your definition of "my people" becoming too b...

2008-05-29T15:18:00.000-04:00

Is your definition of "my people" becoming too broad?



original people were BLACKoriginal language ARAMAI...

2008-05-29T11:17:00.000-04:00

original people were BLACK

original language ARAMAIC out of which Hebrew and Arabic came

original numbers Arabic, Romans tried to replace (1,2,3, etc)

original universities in Ethiopia, were the Romans and Greeks studied stole theories such as Pythagorean

if this is new knowledge take African American studies

racism is an institution, prejudice is a state of mind

Adam was put on the Earth as a punishment

original slaves were Muslim (slang for land of Mu (mistakenly believed to be called Atlantis) a peaceful ppl "saleem")many named Amir (Amer -ica)
Ica- language of Portuguese (original slavetraders)

took slaves to Salem (Salem, Ma or Salem, Oregon, I sure their a Salem in your state)to teach them superstition to get their minds away from Islam

Islam- a way of life, not a religion, how to pray, cleanse, live a straight life

Religion- formed by Romans and Greeks to control population

Muslims-read all texts Bible, Quaran

Was Adam an immigrant? on judgment day are you going to ask the creator why he put Mexicans in your state? They don't have a visa, what was HE thinking?



west coast story:Beyond "bigotry" it is pure ECONO...

2008-05-28T19:45:00.000-04:00

west coast story:

Beyond "bigotry" it is pure ECONOMIC REALITY.

At the end of the day there needs to be a CONTROLLED supply of labor - particularly at the lower end if there is any hope of having a "minimum wage" hold in real terms.

The borders of this nation and others are defined as a line of delineation for defense, services, taxation and labor. To have open borders is going to hurt those at the lower end the most ALWAYS. One doesn't have to hate Mexicans in order to defend our nation's interests in making sure that those who are legal US citizens can have a job market in which they can sell their labor for a paycheck.

It is interesting that one is likely to hear the claim "The Race Toward Zero" from the "consumers of labor" (the employers). The fact is that your position is just as supportive of this concept as any freshman econ major will learn - the market price is set at the point of intersection between supply and demand. This is why I use the concept of "selling labor" and "consumers of labor" - because this is exactly what it is.



When black people line up to pick strawberries in ...

2008-05-27T20:32:00.000-04:00

When black people line up to pick strawberries in ninety degree heat, when black people get as hysterical about jobs outsourced to Asia, I MIGHT believe we care about this issue beyond raw, hypocritical, bigotry. SOME black people are every bit as racist as the mainstream. I guess it elevates a person if there's someone they can spit on.



What ICE, did was enforce a law on identity theft....

2008-05-27T10:56:00.000-04:00

What ICE, did was enforce a law on identity theft. Unless of course you think that someone else using your SSN and DL# are ok? But hey the fact that you have problems w/ the government, doesn't mean you should let people break the law. Have you or someone close to you had your identity stolen? It is a real bitch to deal with!!



Field, the present situation sucks as much in the ...

2008-05-27T10:44:00.000-04:00

Field, the present situation sucks as much in the east as it does out west. As I said, Philly ain't the rest the of the country and you get Puerto Ricans behind closed doors and even they say damn! what it this stuff?
Immigration isn't a distraction issue. Indeed Bush and Mr Morton want MORE folk pouring into here. I think you're wrong being too soft on this, and it will backfire for us all...



[quote]The racist colonialist must be happy about ...

2008-05-27T09:06:00.000-04:00

[quote]The racist colonialist must be happy about this, there strategy of divide and conquere is finally working( 200 years later) great post.[/quote]

AQUILOGY:

This is the problem. Rather than referencing your views on what the WHITE SUPREMACIST colonizers MIGHT think of these brutal assaults it is a far better investment to work with BLACK AFRICANS to make sure that they live up to the particular standard of decency and RESPECT FOR OTHER HUMANS as they had asked others to respect them by.

The government of Zimbabwe needs to be put back into the hands of the people.

The ANC and Mbeki should be called out for being silent about what was going on and thus allowing what is happening now to foment. Clearly their liberal immigration policies must change.



Actually the violence is occuring in the east-rand...

2008-05-27T08:29:00.000-04:00

Actually the violence is occuring in the east-rands and not in Jo'burg, but that's beside the point. I have to say I felt ashamed, as a black South-African, when the Zimbabweans and Mozambicans where being killed shamelessly by fellow black africans. The racist colonialist must be happy about this, there strategy of divide and conquere is finally working( 200 years later) great post.



[quote]Poor President Mbeki, he had to call on his...

2008-05-27T04:46:00.000-04:00

[quote]Poor President Mbeki, he had to call on his countries' army for the first time since the end of apartheid in 1994. That's some troubling shit, and it really makes me wonder about my people sometimes.[/quote]Field-Negro:Your mis-analysis of this situation is STUNNING to me.First of all - your boy Mbeki is in a "chickens coming home to roost" situation. The real problem here is ZIMBABWE. Mbeki is suffering from a lack of willingness to publicly chastise Mugabe for the policies that have caused a major exodus to South Africa and Botswana. You should try to get your hands on the Bill Moyers documentary about the immigration struggle between Zimbabwe and Botswana. (When the left wing Moyers picks up on this type of situation which is normally counter to his biases you know that the bad guy Mugabe is stinking up the place)Secondly South Africa has a LIBERAL immigration policy. Any Zimbabwean who can make it from the northern city centers of their country down to the South African borders in order to find a better life does so. Of the 5 million immigrants in SA - Zimbabweans represent 3 million of them.Fear not Field-Negro because this should tell you a lot about what we face as a nation. You see - if your analysis was spot on you would make note that it is the SOUTH AFRICAN "peasants" who are unskilled that are most at risk by having MORE unskilled workers pore into their nation and compete for jobs at the lower level. These are the people who are rioting.You get it 100% WRONG in your comparison between the deportation efforts of the evil Bush Administration and the actions of the SA government. The SA government has done little to attempt to enforce any type of immigration policy. Again it is the desert conditions between population centers that is most responsible for not having EVEN MORE Zimbabweans come across the border to escape their failed country.You and your fellow bloggers need to turn to Carol Swain - a professor at Vanderbilt University. She was on the "Tony Brown's Journal" show last weekend. She is a leading researcher on the impact of illegal immigration upon the Black worker. It ain't pretty!Here is the problem Field Negro. Our Black leaders are "leftists". As such they are going to BLAME CORPORATIONS for "attracting illegals" so they can work in America. They are NEVER,NEVER,NEVER going to confront the INDIVIDUAL Mexican illegal immigrant, telling him to GO HOME. This would force the left wing politician to GO RIGHT and thus against his instincts. Instead he depends on the White Right wing to assume this position and thus be called a "racist".As a result of all of this - the Black Community is made to SUFFER from the lack of leadership that is displayed by its elected representatives in the matter. As long as there is someone to BLAME (the corporations) they are contented with the erosion because they know that "the other guy did it". You will one day learn, as the South Africans have seen that at some point there is a relatively limited set of jobs for you to fill with your current skill level. Beyond the THEORETICAL compassion that you have - you had better fight to defend the number of people bidding for these jobs.One way to do this is to EDUCATE YOURSELF and move up above these unskilled jobs.The best way that the GOD-vermit can limit the number of people bidding, however, is to at least enforce our border.The time for your ability to point the finger is coming to an end Field-Negro/others. If you think that Obama is going to save the Black community when he couldn't even answer a direct question put to him by Wolf Blitzer about drivers licenses for illegals - you have a long, disappointing road ahead of you.[...]



This is a very complicated issue. I am the daught...

2008-05-27T02:33:00.000-04:00

This is a very complicated issue. I am the daughter of legal immigrants from the Caribbean. I never thought about a brown/black divide as I grew up (until we moved) with Puerto Rican, Cuban, Dominican, Jamaican, Trinidadian, etc. folks

I moved to L.A. and it was different story. I didn't/don't understand it. The school are jacked up and there are other issues to deal with but it's like there is a fight to the bottom of the barrel. The tension is real and I don't think it's going to get better.

We need to stop looking at this issues as a"wedge" issues and get serious. Corporate America esp. farming doesn't really want reform. It would be too costly.

I don't know what the answers are but we better figure it out soon.



"And the truth be told, we are not going to work i...

2008-05-27T02:19:00.000-04:00

"And the truth be told, we are not going to work in meat-packing plants or pick oranges. We are not taking any medial jobs because we have become too Americanized and we are just too privileged to do it. You make not like the statement, but in some ways, it does ring true".

Hennasplace,

I think the argument that no one wants those meat parking jobs is an old one. There are illegal immigrants in higher positions that have a culture of favoring their own. Retail is now hit in California. I have experienced discrimination from people in the retail industry, some of whom where later discovered to be illegal. So you can compare this to slavery or you want, but there are social problems growing out this phenomenon. I am for any kind of legalizing because it will make these people as accountable to discriminatory acts as everyone else.
They are not just victims. It turns out that in their illegal state, they are victimizers too. A far cry from slavey so please don't compare the two.



This is such a challenging multi-layered problem. ...

2008-05-26T22:41:00.000-04:00

This is such a challenging multi-layered problem. The Mexican gov't is so corrupt [2006 fraudulent election] that it drives people to flee to the US. People die trying to get over here and I don't think they take it as a joke! Only recently has the situation with women being used by immigration officials for sex in exchange for papers been covered. Yes there are a lot of racist Mexicans. Yes the US gov't is just as corrupt. The Brown/Black "problem" is white supremacy but people get so easily distracted from the source of the problem seeing each other as competition that they'll fight each other. I would also say part of the reason why some Latinos see themselves as better than Blacks is due to way we let ourselves be treated. Do you think Asians see us any better? They may not be directly fighting us for the left-overs because they figured out a way to get over. Yes our ideals have to be matched by action. I don't shop the big box stores. If I have to I go to Target but at least I can stomach it because they give away $3 million/week for socially progressive initiatives. I can accept my standard of living may have to be lower in order to accommodate better treatment of other people in the world since we are a global society. But I think in some ways the quality of our lives would be better if we were more conscious of things. I'd love to have the 25 paid days off that Europeans enjoy, the child care of France, the mid-day Siestas of Spain just as I'm sure people in developing countries want basics like running water. I don't need an SUV or a 42-inch flat screen tv to be happy. Prop 98 is one ruling up for vote in CA June 3rd which would remove rent control and all of us poorer and elderly folks would find ourselves out on the street. There's a lot to be done - and a lot we can do!



Georgia flash thanks for your contribution. Your p...

2008-05-26T21:18:00.000-04:00

Georgia flash thanks for your contribution. Your post was quite eloquent

Jody, my Phillygirl, as usual you are on point, and I co-sign with you 100%.

Truth to power truth to power....



Immigrants pay taxes. Every time they buy somethin...

2008-05-26T20:49:00.000-04:00

Immigrants pay taxes. Every time they buy something, they pay taxes. When they pay rent, they pay taxes. When they work, they pay taxes, but because often they are using "fake info" they do not get tax returns and they will never see that money in their retirement.

Immigrants are far less likely to seek medical attention, call the police, seek services because of their status.

The only place that immigrants are universally using services are schools for their children. Oh how friggin horrible... we are EDUCATING PEOPLE!

When we have spent, close to 524 BILLION dollars on this debacle in Iraq. When we live in an country with 5% owning over half the countries resources... I am not gonna engage in Immigrant Bashing... the newest distraction from what is really fucked up!



You're correct...Not many of us REALLY walk our ta...

2008-05-26T20:48:00.000-04:00

You're correct...Not many of us REALLY walk our talk. There is an active informed community of consumers in the SF Bay Area. We continue to go out of our way, sometimes, to support "alternative" grocery stores, local "farmers' markets"; some have even formed consumer cooperatives. We are NOT xenophobes who have no empathies for un/documented immigrants.
Learning any second language does expand one's intellect and promotes the kind of 'critical' thinking that will be crucial as we engage this 21st century global community. Perhaps, hopefully, the current ongoing escalation in the cost of crude oil/petroleum products will force each of us to rethink and adapt our standard-of-living to this inevitable change. The piper's got to be paid. MLK once said that "...though the moral arc of the universe is wide, it ultimately bends toward justice..." The debts for the ethnic cleansing of native peoples here; the trans-Atlantic enslavement of our ancestors; and continued blatant abuses of power demand payment. I'm saddened that my grandchild will have to witness the payback.
Again, Field, thanks for this forum.

Georgia "Flash"



Dear U.S. governement:Thanks for the society which...

2008-05-26T19:53:00.000-04:00

Dear U.S. governement:

Thanks for the society which generally values law and order so much more than S. Africa. I'm so glad when I decided to look for better work I came here instead of there...

One thing though: I know your laws (and the citizen's respect the law) have kept me from being butchered in the street like an animal (like in S. Africa for example), but that's really all the use I have for your laws right now. Well, that's not quite true - I also like the fact I can send my kids to school without paying taxes, and get pretty damned good healthcare for free (thanks to you too emergency room), besides of course the work I am able to do here. I suppose it should be *literally clear as day* that the work I am doing here is better than that I can get at home. Yeah, maybe those White Liberals (and their ilk) bemoan my "slave driver" employer, but let me tell you, I left my family, friends, and my home to work this "shitty job". I'm thrilled to have it. Now it's far from perfect, but it's a start.

Anyway, back to my point. Is there any way you can send me a copy of your constitution or whatever it is that decides what is and is not legel, so that I can edit it to my benefit. I won't change much - Hell the reason I'm here at all is that I dig this place. I just want to be able to come as I please, meaning illegally (shrug). I know it undermines what I profess to like so much about America (e.g. the orderly and lawfull society thing), but don't hold my abject logical inconsistency against me... Let's pretend we're married and this is my celebrity "out".

Love,
X



Field, you know where I stand on this. I'm friggin...

2008-05-26T19:32:00.000-04:00

Field, you know where I stand on this. I'm friggin' Daniel Day Lewis in "Gangs of New York." I think we need MORE ICE raids, no due process...yeah show up in schools and moldy old school liberal like Dellums need to shut the hell up.

Fascist? Yeah, sometimes you need to make an example. Now, it's an empty gesture unless you hammer businesses, too (like construction and meatpacking) and now that the Bush Admin is on the wane ICE has a freer hand. So yeah, raid and deport, raid and deport. A message will be given.

FYI it's not just crazy in Cali and Texas-in the DC area we have half of El Salvador here and if you find 5 black folks who that's absolutely wonderful I'll pay for you gasoline...



Field -- I heard that the immigrants got a shorter...

2008-05-26T19:17:00.000-04:00

Field -- I heard that the immigrants got a shorter prison sentence if they cooperated with authorities to provide information to bring down the managers and/or the owners of the plant.

I'm tired of them coming after us Latinos, but I'm okay with it if they go after the companies and their management because you and I both know they don't have their hands clean in this mess.



oops I meant "Bed Rock"... typo!

2008-05-26T16:20:00.000-04:00

oops I meant "Bed Rock"... typo!



People! the issue to me is what ICE and the DA did...

2008-05-26T15:49:00.000-04:00

People! the issue to me is what ICE and the DA did.... there is not due process.... this is the BEAD ROCK of our constitution. If the criminal system can treat these people this way, and there are not eyebrows raised, or it is excused, or accepted, then this leads to detentions of any of us... without due process..... held indefinitely. These people are the canary in the mine..... just as those at Guantanamo........

Yes, undocumented workers needed to be dealt with. Yes, we need a decent immigration program. Yes, we need to work with Mexico and other Latin American countries to promote economic stability so there is less need for folks to risk life and limb to come here.... I am not saying they should not be deported... What I AM saying is this behavior on the part of the criminal system should not be tolerated.



I don't believe ANYone should work without OSHA sa...

2008-05-26T15:43:00.000-04:00

I don't believe ANYone should work without OSHA safety standards. We have had more deaths this year in construction so far, than before for the entire year. It's wrong and it's sad.
I don't believe Americans should be kept from jobs if they don't speak Spanish, because fat cat employers are happily exploiting workers who only speak Spanish.
I don't believe people should ignore racism, and perpetuate new hollow stereotypes about some people being hardworking while others inherently aren't, because those are malignant lies.
We can achieve the dream of a rainbow, but only if people un-ass their stereotypes. Period.
This so reminds me of that "deserving poor" phrase Bill Clinton began, with his war on the poor. I have yet to meet or know of any "deserving rich", and without breaking out all Marxist on anyone-- cuz that doesn't work either-- I say we round THEM up, take their stuff, redistribute it, and force them to speak Esperanto. While they grow our food.