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Preview: Comments on Psycho Toddler: Reading Masters

Comments on Psycho Toddler: Reading Masters





Updated: 2017-06-14T08:02:27.856-05:00

 



Found it ... good post.

2006-07-09T16:45:00.000-05:00

Found it ... good post.



Kiwi: I didn't address something you said earlier...

2006-06-11T16:28:00.000-05:00

Kiwi: I didn't address something you said earlier. It can make a big difference where you put the commas.

Here's a famous example:

There's the whole story with Jacob stealing Esau's blessings from Isaak. In the story, Isaak asks Jacob (who is dressed like Esau) "who's there?", and Jacob answers, "I am Esau your first born." At least that's the literal translation.

The sages have always had a problem with it, because they ask, how can such a holy man as Jacob so plainly lie to his father? (Personally, I have no problem with it; I believe that our forefathers were real people and therefore fallible).

Anyway, the common way around this (according to rashi) is to put in a semicolon. "It is I; Esau is your first born." The same words can take on different meaning depending on the punctuation.



helene: I use the new Artscroll one too, and alth...

2006-06-09T17:39:00.000-05:00

helene: I use the new Artscroll one too, and although I think the print is nice and clear, I really could have done without the English side. It just makes the thing twice as heavy. Also, because the Hebrew is only on one side, Larry made a mistake when he was doing his haftorah at his bar mitzvah: he skipped the other side of the page in the Tanach and continued on to something completely different. It took him (and everyone else) a little while to figure out what happened! Then he slapped his forehead and went back to the right spot. Classic Larry.

Kiwi: Don't be silly. Mrs. B never gets this far down in my comments section. She has, like, a life.



(I tried to say this last night, but Blogger was p...

2006-06-09T16:29:00.000-05:00

(I tried to say this last night, but Blogger was pooping.)

Mrs. Balabusta, please elbow PT.

Do y'all like my heblish?



I leyn regularly for my Conservative shul. Even af...

2006-06-09T15:59:00.000-05:00

I leyn regularly for my Conservative shul. Even after 25 yrs., I find I need to study and prepare for each reading. The holiday readings are thankfully, shorter than the typical Shabbat Shaharit readings. Which Tikkun do y'all use to prepare?? I LOVE the new Artscroll one but it's very heavy to schlep around all the time and the "columns" in the tikkun don't "match" our shul's Sifrei Torah. I usually tell my beginning students to always take out the actual Torah and practice from the Bimah before reading publically. Therefore, no surprises. And I also love to hear a variety of tropes and melodies. There are some interesting ones in our shul. I've learned them over the years simply from listening and following along. Thanks for posting this thread. It's delightful - everyone's comments.



Confidence? Oh, don't worry. I was plenty confid...

2006-06-09T12:00:00.000-05:00

Confidence? Oh, don't worry. I was plenty confident. I was confident that I was not going to remember the trop, and I was so right.

To my credit, I got most of the words correct, except for the ones that I either replaced or skipped altogether.

Regarding skipped Commandments: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.



Yishar koach!I started layning Torah in my shul ju...

2006-06-09T11:46:00.000-05:00

Yishar koach!

I started layning Torah in my shul just under a year ago (it'll be a year in August), and have been doing between three and fifteen pasukim (verses) about every six weeks. When I started, I gave myself a day per pasuk to learn it. Now I like to have about a week, no matter how short or long. That way I can not only learn it but be confident when I get up there Shabbat morning.

Confidence seems to be the key - that and not getting freaked out about being corrected if need be by the gabbai - they only offer a correction to make sure the Torah is read correctly, not to test the fragility of the reader's ego!

Layning was something I always wanted to do, and this past year it's also had the side benefit of helping me overcome stage fright!

For what it's worth, I don't think those who said you did a good job were asleep. My experience has been that most people understand to some degree how difficult this is, and whether someone chants flawlessly or stumbles through it - or somewhere in between - the congregation is far more supportive and encouraging than judgemental and admonishing.

So, which of the Ten Statements did you skip? If they're not read on Shavuot, can we pretend they don't exist until they're read again in Parshat Yitro? ;-)



But I suppose that's not minhag. People might thin...

2006-06-08T11:18:00.000-05:00

But I suppose that's not minhag. People might think you're meshugannah.


By George I think she's GOT it!

BTW, I usually write: "Woman: can't live with her, can't drag her behind the car."



"Then pray that you can still remember how to read...

2006-06-08T10:17:00.000-05:00

"Then pray that you can still remember how to read the consonants-only text without errors when you're reading from an actual Torah scroll."

Sounds like it would be a lot simpler just to read from the Tikkun. But I suppose that's not minhag. People might think you're meshugannah.



Once upon a time an English teacher wrote a senten...

2006-06-08T09:57:00.000-05:00

Once upon a time an English teacher wrote a sentence on the board: "Woman without her man is nothing" and asked her students to punctuate it. The men wrote: "Woman, without her man, is nothing." while the women wrote: "Woman; without her man is nothing."

I hope this doesn't happen in Torah reading! ;o)



Thanks to everyone for explaining everything befor...

2006-06-07T09:52:00.000-05:00

Thanks to everyone for explaining everything before i got back :-)



Kiwi the Geek said:"let me clarify that while the ...

2006-06-07T09:06:00.000-05:00

Kiwi the Geek said:

"let me clarify that while the words are there, there are no vowels, no punctuation, no indication of the beginnings or ends of sentences, paragraphs, or sections, and no musical notes. "

So how do you figure out all those details? Is there some set of rules, like phonics? Is it all according to tradition? Do we have any idea how it was done at the time of writing?

"Baal Korehs"

Does this title have anything to do with the "sons of Korah" mentioned in the Psalms?”


Let me tackle the easy part first. The term Baal Koreh, or Baal K’riyah, comes from the verb “likro,” meaning “to read,”, and has nothing to do with either Korah or the sons thereof, to the best of my admittedly-limited knowledge.


Mark/PT said:
“There are rules for how to pronounce the words. It's grammar. Someone who knows the rules of hebrew grammar doesn't need the vowels, because usually there's only one (rarely 2) ways it can be read and be grammatically correct. Hebrew is a very phonetic language. This is a good thing for Steg to tackle.”

Steg would be better at explaining this, but I’m jumpin’ in anyway.

Indeed, as Mark said, “Someone who knows the rules of hebrew grammar doesn't need the vowels,” but for the rest of us poor souls, there’s this wonderful book called a Tikkun. Each page of a Tikkun contains two columns, the right-hand column displaying the Torah reading (in Hebrew only) with all of the vowels, cantillation marks (which, like Western musical notation, must be learned separately), and punctuation (which is, for the most part indicated by the cantillation), the left-hand column showing the consonants-only text as it appears in an actual Torah scroll. Instructions: Study from the “cheater” column, then switch to the consonants-only column. Repeat until capable of chanting from the consonants-only column without errors. Then pray that you can still remember how to read the consonants-only text without errors when you're reading from an actual Torah scroll.



"This is a good thing for Steg to tackle. "You ans...

2006-06-06T23:38:00.000-05:00

"This is a good thing for Steg to tackle. "

You answered my question, PT. I don't need the gory details. ;o)



Baal korei is one of the most important keys to th...

2006-06-06T22:43:00.000-05:00

Baal korei is one of the most important keys to the shul and the least appreciated. Nice of you to comment on it.



Shmiel,I once made the mistake of trying to teach ...

2006-06-06T22:16:00.000-05:00

Shmiel,

I once made the mistake of trying to teach a kid who didn't want to learn. His father and mother were (and still are) old friends of the family and asked me to teach their son for his bar mitzvah. Natuarally, I agreed. However, he didn't want to do it. It was a year of heartache for me having to "fight" the kid every step of the way.

My new rule is that I don't teach unless the kid wants to learn.

The Wolf



My husband gets tapped to lain fairly often. Whil...

2006-06-06T20:19:00.000-05:00

My husband gets tapped to lain fairly often. While I love to hear him read in shul I have to practically beg him to refuse. He never has time to practice and ends up staying up till all hours Thursday and Friday night practicing because he feels an obligation to do a good, accurate reading. Then he passes out all shabbos afternoon from sleep deprivation.

We end up compromising - if the gabbai calls when I'm home I "don't give him the message" and if he is home he accepts the laining. I think the gabbai is getting wise to me though and is starting to ask my husband to lain at mincha instead of calling the house.....



The Wolf makes a very good comment at the end of h...

2006-06-06T16:59:00.000-05:00

The Wolf makes a very good comment at the end of his story....Maybe all the time spent preparing "Tone Deaf Tony" for his Kriah at the expense of his regular studies aren't such a good time investment. We've all seen it some poor young man who doesn't raelly want to, forced get up and lein his Bar Mitzvah sedrah with poor diction, poor trope and (in my shul unfortunately) a group of adults who let him know how bad he is...Why? because "everybody does"... There's gotta be a better way....



As others have mentioned, practice is the key. An...

2006-06-06T14:21:00.000-05:00

As others have mentioned, practice is the key. Anyone can learn to lain, and if you do it often enough, you will get to the point where you can prepare the parsha in a very short time or even do it cold if need be.

My story is that I was taught to lain when I was twelve by a friend of mine (who, himself, had just become bar mitzvah a few months earlier). After giving me the basics, I ended up preparing my bar mitzvah parsha (Va-yera) pretty much by myself, as well as doing the haftorah. After my bar mitzvah, I took any chance I could get to lain - including laining Mon/Thur in yeshiva. When I was in Boy Scout camp, I lained a few parshiyos then. In some shul, I became a "backup" ba'al kriah, substituting when someone went away.

When I was about fifteen, I found a youth minyan in Flatbush where the parsha was divided up among the teenagers who went. Often, I'd volunteer to do an extra aliya or two that no one else wanted (like the tochacha in B'chukosai or Ki Savo).

When I was sixteen, I got my first full-time job. At that time, I was still at the point where I needed A LOT of preperation to be able to do the parsha. I lasted about three months before I was replaced. At that time, I still didn't have the skill necessary to prepare a whole parsha in a week's time. So, it was back to the "minors" for me.

When I was eighteen, I landed another job. They were patient with me and gave me time to develop my skills. I like to think that I repaid their patience as I was with them for sixteen years. I was there when I got married and had my kids.

I very reluctantly left two years ago when I moved out of the neighborhood. However, I found a position in my new neighborhood within a week of my moving and have been reading ever since.

In addition, my love for the craft has inspired me to go on to teach. I've taught quite a few boys to lain over the years. Some, of course, were better than others. But all of my kids came out of my lessons being able to pick up a chumash and lain ANY parsha, not just the one I taught them.

At first, my opinion was that every bar mitzvah boy should lain. However, as I matured and turned into an old fogey, I came to realize that for some boys, learning to lain may be a waste of time and that they'd be better served by learning a seder of mishnayos for their bar mitzvah. Nonetheless, I never turn away a willing student.

My oldest is now twelve and I am in the middle of teaching him how to lain. Interestingly, I've found that it's very different teaching your own son than teaching someone else's.

Lastly, PT, I'd say that becoming an MD is *by far* a bigger accomplishment than learning how to lain. Don't put yourself down so!

(To Eeees: Thank you for the kind words! :) )

The Wolf



JB: Starting young is definitely the key.TP: A goo...

2006-06-06T09:16:00.000-05:00

JB: Starting young is definitely the key.

TP: A good BK always makes it look easy. Darn them! I'd love for Mrs. B to kvell when I'm up on the bima, but she's never around.

Laya: I tried that with the boys, but apparently it wasn't enough of an incentive. Anyway, they live in such a wonderland already, what need have they for money?

wanderer: Why is your rabbi calling you Steve?
Indeed.

Jack: I dunno. I thought it was pretty funny. Tough crowd.

M in MKE: Thanks. You know you can click "other" and type in M in MKE when you comment, right?

Shmiel and Yonah (ladies and gentlemen, half of Shlock Rock 1 right here in our comments): It is pretty good money. Laya's bro made a pretty good living doing it too.

Kiwi: There is a significant amount of wax between my ears. Oh, TMI.

There are rules for how to pronounce the words. It's grammar. Someone who knows the rules of hebrew grammar doesn't need the vowels, because usually there's only one (rarely 2) ways it can be read and be grammatically correct. Hebrew is a very phonetic language. This is a good thing for Steg to tackle.

Steg, maybe you can explain this somewhere, about vowels in hebrew?

Also, in some places words are replaced where they clearly are incorrect, for example, often the word for He (HOO) seems to be written as She (HEE) but we still pronounce it as HOO (He) due to context. Confusing? Now you know why I'm not a baal koreh.

Baal Koreh is a master of reading. Nothing to do with Korach, who was this guy.

Kasamba: you could get a guest stint at Shira's shul.



Shmiel - looks like we share the same experience! ...

2006-06-06T06:46:00.000-05:00

Shmiel - looks like we share the same experience! I paid for my first guitar with money earned as a Baal Korey. Where I grew up the entire davening was coordinated by the kids. All of the services, including treading the Torah, as well as the speech, the announcements, the "gabbai" jobs - - everything was done by us kids, so most anyone from that shul had a great foundation in Torah reading and in the general shul process. Plus, there were about 15 nursing homes on the boardwalk and they paid great money for us to manage their services as well. I remember getting $35 each week to read the Torah portion, and it was upped to $50 for coming on Monday and Thursday morning to cover that reading as well. That was serious dough at 14 and 15 years old!



Well done that you did it!I actually always felt s...

2006-06-06T02:58:00.000-05:00

Well done that you did it!

I actually always felt shortchanged because I knew both my brothers leinings off by heart and I know I could have done a bloody good job.

But alas, the world will never know....



"my midget-sized mind"Um, you're a doctor. There m...

2006-06-05T23:44:00.000-05:00

"my midget-sized mind"

Um, you're a doctor. There must be something significant between your ears!

"let me clarify that while the words are there, there are no vowels, no punctuation, no indication of the beginnings or ends of sentences, paragraphs, or sections, and no musical notes. "

So how do you figure out all those details? Is there some set of rules, like phonics? Is it all according to tradition? Do we have any idea how it was done at the time of writing?

"Baal Korehs"

Does this title have anything to do with the "sons of Korah" mentioned in the Psalms?



Yes.... I can attest that it is hard work....Paid ...

2006-06-05T18:27:00.000-05:00

Yes.... I can attest that it is hard work....Paid for my first Bass with some YomTov substitute Baal koreh work in High School (at the "other" Shul). My Dad was the regular BK in our Shul (the "big"one) so the folks in the other shul thought i had some star power....Never did become a good BK myself, they must have been disappointed....I have noticed that the Really good ones end up learning the hows and whys of the Trope and the grammer and so become grammarians as well. When my rabbi gives a shiur amnd can't quite find the exact quote from the posuk..he turns to the Baalei Kriah with a humorous request to edify the group
What surprised me about your story is that an Avel would be asked to volunteer to Lein on a chag...I thought that was a no-no. Maybe it is just as Baal Tefilah that an Avel is asked to abstain from on a chag.
as for akdomus...i hope you have a good relationship with your dentist...Although "Kegavna" on friday evening which I imagine is included in your shteeble's routine is probably a decent warmup for that . Yasher Kochacha



Ah, i used to lein almost every week part of the p...

2006-06-05T17:36:00.000-05:00

Ah, i used to lein almost every week part of the parsha during college.

And then i graduated and ended up in communities with professional leiners, who didn't need me. And i went quickly out of practice...



As one of the people there on Shavuos - and standi...

2006-06-05T16:19:00.000-05:00

As one of the people there on Shavuos - and standing right next to you for the Cohen aliyah - I have to say you did a very good job. The akdamus part was most impressive - that is hard!

M in MKE