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Preview: Comments on SerandEz & Friends: Between Two Worlds

Comments on SerandEz and Friends: Between Two Worlds





Updated: 2013-06-25T09:05:38.343-04:00

 



Ezzie, I wonder if the program at your elementary ...

2008-05-13T21:04:00.000-04:00

Ezzie, I wonder if the program at your elementary school had something to do with the Federation dollars they were receiving...



While not standing might not be "bashing", it cert...

2008-05-11T00:57:00.000-04:00

While not standing might not be "bashing", it certainly is disrespectful and a chilul hashem.

What people do in their own homes is between them and God. What people do b'farhesia affects everyone around them (sometimes with far-reaching consequences).

When the country is standing in mourning/remembering, the least one can do is stand respectfully for all of 60-120 SECONDS.

There are creative sollutions for Jews who don't accept Yom HaZikarona but want to be respectful. Many open a Sefer Tehillim and read a few p'rakim.

When Jews blatantly ignore the siren, they are "poresh min hatzibur". Perhaps they consider themselves to be the tzibur -- in some ways they would be correct, though numerically they are a small minority. However, being representatives of the tzibur would imbue them with an even greater responsibility to those around them.

Whichever way you look at it, we are responsible for ALL of Am Yisrael.

Our goals should be to behave in a way that will be m'karev our fellow Jews and be a kiddush hashem.

This year, davka on Yom HaShoah, I found myself standing next to two very hiloni Israelis. Perhaps it was my imagination, but I saw initial surprise, followed by respect, when I stepped out of my car to stand. I am dati-leumi, but to many hilonim, all religious people (especially women), look alike.

What one religious Jews does reflects on all religious Jews.

Perhaps you would be interested in my post about Yom HaZikaron:
Yom HaZikaron



We are in the midst of a dumbing down generation, ...

2008-05-09T00:08:00.000-04:00

We are in the midst of a dumbing down generation, where Jewish education is superficial, issues are quickly or not at all discussed, and history of past leaders is rewritten.



I never experienced any conflict here because my e...

2008-05-08T16:45:00.000-04:00

I never experienced any conflict here because my elementary school, high school, and Israel school were all zionistic and went all out on yom hazikaron and yom ha'atzmaut. But I know the issue exists and it makes me upset.

However, not standing is not "bashing Jews;" it is a statement that this is 1)unimportant or b)against my beliefs.

True, as Stam said, that's not the bashing Jews part, but when the rest of your country is in mourning over those who lost their lives fighting for their country, it's very hurtful not to respect that. By not standing, it's actively saying, as you pointed out, "this is unimportant" or "this is against my beliefs." Why does this even have to be a religious issue? It's a national issue. Even if you don't believe in the Israeli government, Israeli soldiers were fighting both for their country and for the Jewish nation. Perhaps in your own home, don't stand up, but if you're in public, it's making a statement that is extremely hurtful and divisive. It isn't a sin to stand in silence for a minute and think about your brethren who have fallen, even if it's not on the day which you feel is the appropriate one to be remembering them.

As for Yom Ha'atzmaut, no one is forcing anyone to say Hallel, but to ban people from celebrating, to look down on them for doing so? Religious issues aside, what is so wrong about allowing people to celebrate the fact that the Jews were able to finally have a place in which to freely practice Judaism?

Aaaaanyway, sorry if this was really rambly. Apparently I feel more strongly on this issue than I thought I did. :P



Its just like saying God in the pledge of legience...

2008-05-08T15:32:00.000-04:00

Its just like saying God in the pledge of legience- people like to make bigger deals out of things then they are. Its all for political attention in my view- whats it hurt to stand for two minutes.



I remember screaming at everyone to protest the gi...

2008-05-08T12:10:00.000-04:00

I remember screaming at everyone to protest the girush.. they looked at me like I was a lunatic...

I asked the yeshivish / chareidi crowd, why the digging up of 38? graves, destruction of 60 shull's meant nothing to do them...

Why shas can scream about chilul shabbos, but the fact that the army was mechalel shabbos didnt mean nothing to them.

I observe a moment of silence on yom hazikaron and yom hashoa although I dont recognize yom hashoa because the lubavitvher rebbe said that nissan is not a proper month to mourn over this.

I dont think you can excuse talking through the yom hazikaron siren, its just done to mourn and remember those killed al kidush hashem.. and especially nowdays when it commemorates both soldiers and those killed in terror attacks.



Much like the apple, I relate to this all too well...

2008-05-08T11:23:00.000-04:00

Much like the apple, I relate to this all too well.

Growing up, my elementary school actually was a little conflicted on the subject. They essentially ignored it, but they would call us to the auditorium each year for an assembly that was always unclear, unexplained, and seemed to be mostly focused on bashing Theodore Herzl. They'd show a video, then send us back to class.

Every year, my father would take us with him to our shul's other branch in a different neighborhood to Shacharis. We'd daven with the minyan there, though my father would tell us to skip the extra parts of pesukei d'zimrah, not to say the bracha when they said Hallel, and didn't seem all that interested in the krias haTorah. Afterwards there would be a speech from the Rav, followed by a nice breakfast; after we'd eaten, he'd take us back to school, just about in time for class. One year one (more 'yeshivish') Rebbe questioned me about it, and we debated through recess, if I recall correctly. At the very end, he noted that if I could "toe that fine line, it was fine" - a concession that was rather surprising, but pleasant on some level.

In my last couple of years in the school, apparently enough people raised the issue that the school decided to change what they were doing. They put together a rather meaningful video, interviewing 4 former students who lived in Israel, including a cousin of mine who is Charedi. All spoke beautifully about what Israel means to them, and it was rather inspiring to see how each took something else from it - it didn't matter what their political or religious leanings were, they were able to find the good in whatever goes on.

High school was a bit different; I never heard a word spoken against as far as I can remember, but there was no "pro" either. I think a few of us would walk silently into another room after Chazaras HaShatz, finish our own davening there, and nobody really said anything about it.

In Israel, it was a lot more conflicted; some Rabbeim spoke out against, most emphasized that we shouldn't "waste a minute of learning" to stop for the siren [many of us walked outside for that minute instead], Yom Ha'atzmaut was discussed both halachically and hashkafically and usually in a negative fashion... but they brought in speakers about both, they had us go to the Moshav's ceremony for the fallen, they had their own party. (There was actually a VERY awkward moment when a prominent speaker got fed up with an obnoxious question about why he says Hallel and walked out. This resulted in proper criticism by the Rabbeim about knowing when to keep your mouth shut even when you disagree, IIRC.)

Woah. This is quite long and rambling. But I loved the post, and it brought back lots of thoughts/memories. :)



I related to this post *so* much. For me, it was ...

2008-05-08T11:03:00.000-04:00

I related to this post *so* much. For me, it was more the disconnect between home and school that made things confusing - both my elementary school and high school didn't do anything to commemorate Yom HaShoah (although they didn't ignore it, just didn't go anything special), and for sure not Yom Hazikaron or Yom Haatzmaut. However, my parents did feel strongly that these were important days. Kind of made me confused :) (and I still sort of am).

The worst for me was my experience in seminary, when on Yom Hazikaron, one of my teachers talked through the siren. I was so angry - just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you have to disrespect it. (Not to mention we couldn't hear what she was saying anyway.) Bothered me a lot. No one else seemed to be, though, which bothered me even more!

Seriously - great post. *applause*



Anon -"Not standing" is not the "bashing" that I'm...

2008-05-08T10:32:00.000-04:00

Anon -"Not standing" is not the "bashing" that I'm talking about. Everyone has the choice to stand or not. But to accuse those who do stand, who do celebrate, who do observe, of not having emunah, bitachon or belief in G-d, THAT's the bashing. I don't care if you stand or not, but don't think that you're better than the rest of them if you don't. Don't think that standing makes them less frum, less Jewish, less G-d fearing than you. The author of that letter on YW is part of the group of Jews who take the "holier than thou" attitude. "You stand for the siren? You pray for the State of Israel? You're not frum! You should depend on G-d for all of that!"

Scraps - thanks, (i'm glad at least you and profk understood the point.)



Shkoyach to you. :)

2008-05-08T10:18:00.000-04:00

Shkoyach to you. :)



Why is it "Jews bashing Jews" not to stand for the...

2008-05-08T10:08:00.000-04:00

Why is it "Jews bashing Jews" not to stand for the siren? I think people should stand to remember those who fought and fell so we can live in Eretz Yisrael. However, not standing is not "bashing Jews;" it is a statement that this is 1)unimportant or b)against my beliefs.



profk - thats great!! (well, the quote not the iss...

2008-05-08T09:01:00.000-04:00

profk - thats great!! (well, the quote not the issue :) )



You've got my vote! My mother is fond of saying t...

2008-05-08T08:34:00.000-04:00

You've got my vote! My mother is fond of saying that Jews really don't need to worry about non-Jewish anti-semites--we do such a good job of hating other Jews ourselves.