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Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:37:50 GMT

I know that I have a huge bias here, but I really think that MS is doing a really great thing when it comes to RSS. The beautiful part of it is that amount of work that an application developer no longer has to do. I think that RSS is going to be so much broader because MS is putting the work they are doing into the platform. The nice part is that this is not novel work… soon you’ll see these kind of platform investments in every platform. The surprising part is that any one else could have done the work first, but MS did. I think this may be the first time in a long time that MS has done something big that other people will emulate. Because knowing what RSS is and parsing XML for a dev is absolutely useless. It’s like knowing how to handle a TCP/IP packet. It’s the start of a brand new world. And when you can synch your databases, web directories, book marks, photos, calendars, reports, contacts, sales pipelines and everything else you can think of over RSS, you can have announcements like this to thank for kicking it off.

 

http://ironyuppie.com

posted by baleeted




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:38:03 GMT

Lets hope everyone waits a day or two before someone submits this to /. and Channel 9 goes down again.

posted by dahat




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:46:46 GMT

dahat wrote:

Lets hope everyone waits a day or two before someone submits this to /. and Channel 9 goes down again.


Yeah, SlashFUD always posts old news anyhow... I figure it will take them a week to find this.

posted by DoomBringer




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:03:41 GMT

ScobleEtAl wrote:
Check it out, first video demos of Longhorn and IE 7.


What's this I hear?

posted by W3bbo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:11:33 GMT

I "heart" IE7 (image)


Haven't finished watching the video yet..


mVPstar

posted by MasterPi




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:18:54 GMT

Will be watching the video later this evening but already I see some folks are very upset about the whole thing:

http://www.digital-web.com/news/2005/06/microsoft_to_take_rss_five_steps_backwards/ 

posted by irascian




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:25:40 GMT

I have to say that IE 7 has such a sensible design, with the integration of search and RSS plus the layout of toolbars.

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:27:46 GMT

This is sooooo cool.

I loved the Amazon demo as well.

I crave more info! (image)

posted by Stebet




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:32:44 GMT

Will the RSS/List library be released so XP can have similar functionality easily like IE7?

(image) http://www.middaysoftware.com/MinhsBlogs/Directgallery/lh_h_rss.gif” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors." src="http://www.middaysoftware.com/MinhsBlogs/Directgallery/lh_h_rss.gif">  But don't forget XP -- please.

posted by Minh




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:39:43 GMT

RSS is to the 2000s as Multimedia is to the early 1990s.

posted by rhm




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:39:53 GMT

Minh: Dean just announced on stage that most of this stuff will be on XP as well. There are some technical challenges they are trying to solve as it comes to the synchronization part, but he said the rest of this stuff will be on XP too.

posted by scobleizer




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:48:59 GMT

scobleizer wrote:
Minh: Dean just announced on stage that most of this stuff will be on XP as well. There are some technical challenges they are trying to solve as it comes to the synchronization part, but he said the rest of this stuff will be on XP too.
Hmm... I guess if the RSS/List for XP library is released around longhorn's release date (or later), then the group might be scooped by developers out there reading the specs. What's the chances that the library be released before (hopefully way before) longhorn?

posted by Minh




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:50:23 GMT

What happens if there are multiple feeds on a page, but they are for different things? For example, lets say my company site has a "News" feed and a "CEO" feed, will IE7 only see the first one listed on the page?

posted by NathanLaan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:50:42 GMT

Hi all, new here *waves*

Hmm, RSS Everywhere?  I thought RSS was very specfic XML for news updates.  Wouldn't XML Everywhere be more appropriate?

posted by Judiah




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:52:29 GMT

I missed the first post by this much >> <<
I gotta say, great application Walter! 

And the whole thing is stupendous and great.  This makes my day.  The team has a tiger by the tail.  The best of luck to y'all in delivering a great set of features for us developers.

posted by waltal




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:01:14 GMT

Longhorn

RSS

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:01:22 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
one thing that gets to me is if the NT kernel doesnt get changed why do they need to write new drivers for every version of windows?

Um, cause it does change?

posted by pikatung




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:05:09 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
they just changed the interface and wrote some new features that don't surprise me..whats next?
If you think that's all they did you weren't watching the video

posted by jonathanh




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:10:03 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
nope, devs even say it they can't change it

What, the NT kernel? You've got to be joking...

Oh and Neopets + RSS = uber 1337 (image)

posted by pikatung




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:16:12 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
nope, devs even say it they can't change it


Kernel changes in XP

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:44:15 GMT

Very cool. I put some comments on my blog.

I want to be the first to ask for a Longhorn (heart) RSS t-shirt.

posted by mbazzoni




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:47:55 GMT

Yeah, I want one of those t-shirts too. (image)

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:50:39 GMT

Has anybody put up a link to where the RSS extention spec is at yet? Did I just miss something obvious? Dean said it would be available at noon today, which I assumed was noon PST.

Thanks (image)

posted by TDavid




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 19:59:54 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
the article was written in 2001

"Windows XP provides support for 64-bit processors"

yet MS just shipped a x64 edition

Ever heard of Itanium?

You really should do more research on some topics before commenting on them.

posted by pikatung




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:13:58 GMT

Itanium is 64bit but is nothing like x86. x64 is a 64bit extension to x86.

posted by Sampy




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:18:49 GMT

Ah, so everyone at MS is a Program Manager? (image) Awesome. That aside, this is definitely good stuff (image)

posted by Flyer




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:28:33 GMT

TDavid wrote:
Has anybody put up a link to where the RSS extention spec is at yet? Did I just miss something obvious? Dean said it would be available at noon today, which I assumed was noon PST.

Thanks (image)



Take a look at https://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/understanding/rss/default.aspx

Thanks
-Dave

posted by DMassy




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:28:36 GMT

waltal wrote:
I missed the first post by this much >> <<
I gotta say, great application Walter! 

And the whole thing is stupendous and great.  This makes my day.  The team has a tiger by the tail.  The best of luck to y'all in delivering a great set of features for us developers.


Tiger by the tail? Tiger was released almost two months ago and they've had RSS in Safari that whole time. When is Longhorn gonna be released?

posted by jcontonio




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:35:18 GMT

Very interesting video. For me, it was the IE7 news that was the most noteworthy. I am very happy that MS made the RSS feature so clearly visible on the interface. Great!

Now all I have to do is to teach my IE friends who have no clue about RSS how to actually use it in order to get their news, including my rants on videoblogs.

Raymond M. Kristiansen
Norway

posted by dltq




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:39:14 GMT

Just to add to the Itanium mix up, Microsoft discontinued Windows XP 64-Bit for Itanium Workstations in January or February of this year. The only place you will find Windows on Itanium these days is the server.

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:51:04 GMT

dahat wrote:

Lets hope everyone waits a day or two before someone submits this to /. and Channel 9 goes down again.



We should be fine. I found the problem. Let's see if I fixed it...

C

posted by Charles




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:08:36 GMT

Here is the official press-release on Longhorn RSS:
https://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/jun05/06-24RSSIntegrationPR.mspx

Also, here are some close screenshots of IE7 from Bink.nu:
http://bink.nu/Article4349.bink

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:34:25 GMT

In addition to Dave's earlier link to the RSS details on MSDN, check out Dean's post on the IE team blog, https://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/06/24/432390.aspx

-j

posted by jmazner




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:45:46 GMT

"What happens if there are multiple feeds on a page, but they are for different things? For example, lets say my company site has a "News" feed and a "CEO" feed, will IE7 only see the first one listed on the page?"


I am wondering about this too.  Some blogs have an RSS feed per category.  I could see a simple solution to this.  Make that RSS on IE7 be a button with a drop down.  Get the first (or default) feed when you click the button.  Press the drop down arrow and see all the other feeds you can subscribe to.

posted by hillr




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:53:16 GMT

Flyer wrote:
Ah, so everyone at MS is a Program Manager? (image)

Not everyone, but it sure looks like it at the intro to the video.  The PM team is often out in front as the "public face" of a product team.

Seriously, the RSS PM team worked super hard on the RSS demos and the Gnomedex event.  My dev team was certainly doing our part making the platform solid (IE7 and the RSS bits are real code checked into a real branch of the Longhorn sources) but the Outlook demos, List demos, etc. were all coded by the PMs. 

What you see Amar showing is a testament to the strength of our PM team.  Big time kudos to them!

Maybe next time I'll be able to be there for Scoble's camera.  I'll make sure to bring along some developers.

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:57:41 GMT

hillr wrote:

"What happens if there are multiple feeds on a page, but they are for different things? For example, lets say my company site has a "News" feed and a "CEO" feed, will IE7 only see the first one listed on the page?"


I am wondering about this too.  Some blogs have an RSS feed per category.  I could see a simple solution to this.  Make that RSS on IE7 be a button with a drop down.  Get the first (or default) feed when you click the button.  Press the drop down arrow and see all the other feeds you can subscribe to.

The Beta 1 implementation is that very thing, although we're planning on changing it.  The demo today showed something closer to final implementation.

Basically, our current thinking is that the dropdown is too complex, too much choice.  We want the RSS button to be dead simple "boom, RSS preview", not a dropdown to make a secondary selection.  So the RSS feed button connects to the first autodiscovered feed on the page.  With that implementation, we hope to encourage websites to list their primary feed via autodiscovery rather than a long list.

Note that with many websites, the autodiscovery list is not really multiple contents feeds so much as multiple content formats.  That's not really helpful to very many users.

In the Tools / Feeds menu, you can find a cascade of all autodiscovered feeds on the page. 

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:07:20 GMT

hillr wrote:

"What happens if there are multiple feeds on a page, but they are for different things? For example, lets say my company site has a "News" feed and a "CEO" feed, will IE7 only see the first one listed on the page?"


I am wondering about this too.  Some blogs have an RSS feed per category.  I could see a simple solution to this.  Make that RSS on IE7 be a button with a drop down.  Get the first (or default) feed when you click the button.  Press the drop down arrow and see all the other feeds you can subscribe to.



Likewise, some feeds are offered in multiple formats - there might be HTML and plaintext versions of the same feed.  Firefox's built-in RSS subscription method displays a menu of all available feeds.

One solution for this is to continue to use orange XML buttons (yuck) but it would be nice if IE could offer a simple UI for this.

On other notes... certainly XML is a good way to distribute content.  Imagine an RSS patch-distribution system, or virus/spyware-definition-distribution system.  But I have to wonder how far generalization-of-RSS should be pushed.  I don't agree with the "RSS for everything" mantra.  Some things deserve to be their own XML specialization.  The location of one's orange sneakers, for example, is probably sufficiently different from news stories to have its own specification.  Similarly, a list of active job opportunities might benefit from having it's own XML specification, and might not be sufficiently RSS-ish to work as an RSS generalization.  If the RSS spec + extensions becomes too overly huge, it puts a correspondingly huge burden on applications that want to call themselves "RSS clients."

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:21:49 GMT

BruceMorgan wrote:
Note that with many websites, the autodiscovery list is not really multiple contents feeds so much as multiple content formats.  That's not really helpful to very many users.


But surely control should be given to the site publisher to decide how best to serve their user profiles.  Sites that are less technical in nature could simply scale back to a single feed option.  Ian Hickson could continue to offer plaintext and HTML formats of his feed.

EDIT: I don't mean to come off negative.  Integrated RSS is very cool.

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:35:20 GMT

Maurits wrote:
But surely control should be given to the site publisher to decide how best to serve their user profiles.  Sites that are less technical in nature could simply scale back to a single feed option.  Ian Hickson could continue to offer plaintext and HTML formats of his feed.


What control? 

Nothing we're doing prevents a publisher from listing multiple feeds via autodiscovery. 

IE's RSS button will show the first one in the list because we chose simplicity over flexibility.  We had lots of debates about this, and I think we're making the right choice.

Thus he RSS button takes you to the feed, not dropping a menu of everything possible from the publisher. Our current plan is that IE7 will show the full list off a cascading menu item. 

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:47:34 GMT

BruceMorgan wrote:
Nothing we're doing prevents a publisher from listing multiple feeds via autodiscovery.


... yes it is.  I myself have a website on which I was going to offer multiple autodiscovery feeds (linked from the same HTML page, with different content.)  IE7's demoed behavior is causing me to change my mind - I'll  have to stick to orange XML buttons so that users won't get confused by the RSS button in the IE chrome.  Maybe I'll hack up a conditional comment to hide the autodiscovery feeds from IE7... ah, the irony...

Things should be as simple as possible - but no simpler.
    -- Albert Einstein

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:59:19 GMT

The IE7 RSS implementation seems very similar to Safari 2.0, not to say that it isn't a good one but it isn't super-awesome-new as the demo seemed to suggest.
OK the RSS button is on the toolbar and not in the address bar, but the rest is just the same. I was waiting to see a duplication of the content-length slider in Safari, expecially when he started talking about how long the RSS preview page was.

Whats the benifit of Calender items in RSS over vCal? iCal and Sunbird etc already support vCal subscriptions for  much the same effect. These standards already exist and are widely used outside of Microsoft's applications, why invent a new one?

Whats the interface that alerts the use when new items are available in the feeds, or does the user have to keep visiting the RSS preview page?

If any application can add items to the users feed list through the API then I expect to see malware automatically subscribing people to feeds that pop up advertising/pr0n every few minutes. What  controls are in place to prevent unwanted 3rd parties from adding to the list without permission, a registered RSS application whitelist? LUA wouldn't apply here since it is the user's own data. I certainly hope is isn't accessible to Javascript. I like the idea of a common platform, but you end up with monoculture issues pretty quickly.

IE7 is being released before Longhorn isn't it? So we should see these features sooner than 18 months.

Will there be at least a basic calender componant in Outlook Express for Longhorn, or do you have to have full Outlook?

 So when do we get Link Rel tags on Channel9 to subscribe to feeds of individual threads? Firefox already goes looking for them and comes up empty.

--damn language filter.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:14:02 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
Mauritis where did you get that Einstein quote?


Why, I made it up, of course... just like I make up all my facts. (image)

Seriously folks, it seems to be a folk attribution.  Here's a subtly different version cited on the VS2005 Team System blog
"Einstein reputedly said (although no one is quite sure), that a theory should be as simple as possible, but no simpler."

EDIT: And another version on a mug sold by the Exploratorium in San Francisco:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler."

EDIT2: Einstein usually spoke German, so maybe it got lost in translation.  His last words are lost, because his nurse didn't speak German.

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:16:13 GMT

Maurits wrote:
(image) BruceMorgan wrote: Nothing we're doing prevents a publisher from listing multiple feeds via autodiscovery.


... yes it is.  I myself have a website on which I was going to offer multiple autodiscovery feeds (linked from the same HTML page, with different content.)  IE7's demoed behavior is causing me to change my mind - I'll  have to stick to orange XML buttons so that users won't get confused by the RSS button in the IE chrome.  Maybe I'll hack up a conditional comment to hide the autodiscovery feeds from IE7... ah, the irony...

Things should be as simple as possible - but no simpler.
    -- Albert Einstein
There will be many more pages with one feed associated with the page than pages with multiple feeds (excluding format differences).

So quite frequently a dropdown approach would show either multiple formats (low value to end users) or it would be a single item list (no value to end users).  For pages like that, I think our RSS button has the right implementation.

For the less frequent "index of feeds" pages, then your approach of showing multiple feeds on the page is fine, IMHO. If there is no single "best feed" for the whole page, then it just might be a good idea to not use autodiscovery.  Your choice.

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:27:09 GMT

Needs more Beta 1 availability!

posted by Tom Servo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:32:27 GMT

BruceMorgan wrote:
There will be many more pages with one feed associated with the page than pages with multiple feeds (excluding format differences).


Agreed.  It's a tricky UI problem.

Couldn't you have a button and a drop-down, show the button for sites with one feed, and show the drop-down for sites with multiple feeds?

Or just have a button, and if the site has multiple feeds, have the button pop up a dialog with a list of checkboxes, with only the first one checked by default?

I'm a little confused as to why you think multiple formats will be of low value to end users.  Surely that depends heavily on the audience.  Suppose the feed is a video feed - I imagine there's value in allowing at least three feed formats (Windows Media, QuickTime, Real...)

Or if the feed is a news site, there's value in allowing auto-sense subscription to any or all of the various "channel" content from the home page.

(Note the media player is an example of exclusive feed options, whereas the news channel is an example of inclusive feed options.)

With IE7 supporting feed autosense, I'm sure the RSS providers will be quick to reassess how their feeds are presented to browser users.  Look how quickly rel="alternate" links were added for Firefox, with a mere < 10% browser share.

EDIT: Or perhaps the answer is to allow publishers to specify an OPML file as an alternate link...

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:32:44 GMT

Maurits wrote:
Couldn't you have a button and a drop-down, show the button for sites with one feed, and show the drop-down for sites with multiple feeds?

Or just have a button, and if the site has multiple feeds, have the button pop up a dialog with a list of checkboxes, with only the first one checked by default?


A big part of being simple is being predictable. A button that sometimes navigates to the feed and sometimes needs a secondary choice isn't predictable.

We spun around a lot with discussions like these.  I'm happy to listen to more ideas on how to make the RSS button be simple yet keep the functionality people want.

Maurits wrote:
I'm a little confused as to why you think multiple formats will be of low value to end users.  Surely that depends heavily on the audience.  Suppose the feed is a video feed - I imagine there's value in allowing at least three feed formats (Windows Media, QuickTime, Real...)


By multiple formats, I mean "RSS .92, RSS 1.0, RSS 2.0, ATOM" - a list of transport formats is of low value to the user.  I don't mean video vs. text.

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:41:12 GMT

IMHO it should be like the IE back and forward buttons. A simple button you can just click that goes to the first feed, but with a down arrow segment for a drop down list that lets you choose a specific feed. Most people only ever click on the main button, but for those that know more, or want to jump back several pages at once, the split button/drop down works really well.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:41:12 GMT

eddwo wrote:
IMHO it should be like the IE back and forward buttons. A simple button you can just click that goes to the first feed, but with a down arrow segment for a drop down list that lets you choose a specific feed.

Or an option that can change the behaviour from either a simple button or a dropdown box.

posted by pikatung




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:41:13 GMT

BruceMorgan wrote:
By multiple formats, I mean "RSS .92, RSS 1.0, RSS 2.0, ATOM" - a list of transport formats is of low value to the user.  I don't mean video vs. text.


Fair enough... so you agree there would be value in providing multiple feeds for different formatting options of the deliverable content (as opposed to merely different formatting options for the markup?)

Perhaps a solution to the RSS vs. ATOM question is for providers to mark up their rel="alternate" links as:

type="application/rss+xml; rssversion=0.92" (text/html; charset=utf8)
type="application/rss+xml; rssversion=1.0"
type="application/rss+xml; rssversion=2.0"

and whatever ATOM is

Then IE could select the most recent version it understands (hopefully when RSS 3 comes out, IE wouldn't try to interpret it until it was patched to have RSS 3 support)

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:48:53 GMT

If several formats are available, RSS 0.92, Atom, RSS 2.0 + Microsoft Extensions wouldn't it be better to pick the one with the extensions by default instead of just the first one?  Or are you going to ask web developers to make sure that the most featurefull feed is the first one on the page?



posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:53:38 GMT

pikatung wrote:

Or an option that can change the behaviour from either a simple button or a dropdown box.


Well its just about which side of the button you click, either on the icon or on the down arrow. People have coped with it in browsers for years, no need to oversimplify it down to just a single button. Adding a user option to change the button appearance is just unneed complexity.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:06:34 GMT

eddwo wrote:
IMHO it should be like the IE back and forward buttons.


Speaking of which... where are they???

(image)

posted by Maurits




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:08:50 GMT

A split button (like history - button + drop down arrow) is a good idea, but we know from usability testing that few users 'get' split buttons.

As for an option, "NFW" is what I generally say to anyone that wants to add one more option.  If there was any doubt, take a look at our Internet Options dialog - especially the "maze of twisty passages, all alike" of Advanced Options.

posted by BruceMorgan




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:17:10 GMT

Do they need to "get" split buttons, they just point the mouse at the icon and it works as they expect. If there was only a single feed I would have it grey out the drop-down chevron and work as a simple button, but where there are multiple feeds a more advanced user would see the solid chevron and know to click on that for a drop down choice.
Seems better than having to go look in a menu instead.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:22:34 GMT

Maurits wrote:
(image) eddwo wrote:IMHO it should be like the IE back and forward buttons.


Speaking of which... where are they???

(image)


Thats a Longhorn style window, so the back-forward buttons are no longer part of the toolbar and are now more like part of the window chrome.

In Longhorn Shell Windows + IE7 + WinFX Navigation Applications will share a common style of back-forward button in to top left corner of the chrome.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:54:40 GMT

Did you read the IE Blog about Low Rights IE?
https://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/06/09/427410.aspx
They are in fact putting IE in a very tight straightjacket using NT permissions.

The problem with virtualisation is people still want to move content from IE to their computer. Want to right-click on an image and save it/set it as your desktop wallpaper? That image now has to traverse to the real PC in some manner.
With the locked-down IE you need some method of elevating the IE processes permissions so it temporarily has the rights to write just that particular file to the users profile.

If you are using virtualisation you need a way to alert the host environment of a file transfer request initiated from the virtualised environment.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 00:57:22 GMT

You should really use a more concise namespace prefix for your proposed RSS extension instead of cf.

"Do a good job naming your elements prefixes. No one wants to deal with an element of when is a lot more understandable.

Do a good job with your namespace prefix too. woot is crap when shirt makes more sense (combining this with the above maxim, you've got instead of )."

Quoted material gratuitously borrowed from http://www.disobey.com/detergent/2002/extendingrss2.

posted by superrcat




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:05:06 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
letting a user save a specific image,file on the real hard drive is easy, but it can distinguish from a "bad" entity out in webspace trying to get threw IE from a security risk...


How is it easy? Any action that can be initiated by the IE guest process can also be initiated by exploit code that has taken control of the IE guest process.

How can the host environment detect if the guest IE process has been exploited?

If the host environment accepts file save requests from the guest environment then any exploit code would be able to save files to the real hard disc, which defeats the point of the virtualisation.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:12:19 GMT

Arn't namespace prefixes irrelevant?
">http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/rss/core/2005">


is the same as
">http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/rss/core/2005">

The prefix is just used by the parser to map back to the namespace URI.
So long as the URI is correct, and the prefix
is used consistently within the document, what the prefix actually is
doesn't effect the end result.



posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:38:36 GMT

eddwo wrote:
Arn't namespace prefixes irrelevant?
">http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/rss/core/2005">


is the same as
">http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/rss/core/2005">

The prefix is just used by the parser to map back to the namespace URI.
So long as the URI is correct, and the prefix
is used consistently within the document, what the prefix actually is
doesn't effect the end result.

To the parser, no, the value of the namespace does not matter if it is referenced consistently within the document, but then again, neither does the element name. You could have instead of , the point was to make it easy to understand without having both the parser and the developer to read an entire schema.

posted by superrcat




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:43:20 GMT

Can you change to ?
I guess it depends on what sort of parser you are using.

If I do a doc.SelectSingleNode("listinfo","http://www.microsoft.com/schemas/rss/core/2005")

its not going to have much luck finding a tag, but it will find a  tag so long as the namespace reference maps foo to the URI.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:55:39 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
you are complicating the process, their is always a way, noone thought you could run two programs at once.....the "gloving" theory just came to me a few minutes ago so I don't have all the answers right now, give me some time and I'll write something


There always being a way and there always being a SECURE way are two very different things.

You can't claim to ask a security problem, and then get all worked up when you're given a security answer.

Here's the reality: IE will not only have the low-risk settings, it'll also be using the (oh god, I'm not even going to try and enter the acronym... suffice to say that all content that ISN'T from the machine gets effectively sandboxed using this API set, which was introduced in XP SP2), so not only will the browser be locked down, but ALL content that isn't from the machine'll be kept under lock and key as well.

That answer your question (kinda sorta)?

I'll need to go back and listen to the demo again (gnomedex one), because the second presenter actually covered this.

posted by Jeremy W




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 01:58:53 GMT

It could be simpler than how I described. The virtual environment could have a special way of invoking a function in the environment process.

1. You right click save as in VirtualIE.
2. IE is modified to use a special function
     SaveRealFile(filename,sourcesite,pointertofilecontents)
3. The virtual environment traps calls to that function.
4. It causes the standard save dialog to appear on the host OS.
       "You are attempting to save a file from the Internet. Do you want to save {filename} from {sourcesite}"
5. The user chooses a location to save that file and the data is streamed out of the virtual environment and onto the host OS disk.

To the end user this is just as seamless as the present method.

However if the virtual browser is compromised, the exploit code could call SaveRealFile("onecoolapp.exe","trustedsitename",pointertoviruscode)

The user is then presented with an unexpected save dialog and may make a bad decision to save the file to the host OS and execute it.

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:01:22 GMT

VMWare does not allow the Guest OS to affect the Host OS. You cannot transfer files between the OSs except by going through normal network access channels.

Imagine this scenario.
To save a file to your real profile you would need to.
    1. In virtual IE right click and choose save as..
    2. Save the file to the disk of the virtual OS..
    3. Open an explorer window on the host OS
    4. Navigate to \\VirtualIE\SavedFiles\
    5. Select and copy the file from there and paste it into "My Documents" on the host OS.

How many people would be able to handle that?

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:04:17 GMT

You got half these features in NinerStat... (image)

posted by Steve411




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 02:23:15 GMT

First, why so many project managers working on rss? Is it really that complicated? Second, why are all the pm's so exited? Every browser in the world has rss feeds built in already except interenet explorer. I'm also not to excited about the calender feature as I don't know anyone that would publicly publish their calender and if they did I wouldn't care were they were 24/7? Perhaps usefull for business but worthless to a home user. Also, the amazon example isn't all that exciting either. Consumer websites already have pricing, review, etc, sorting built into the sites. Why would I want to use my boxes resources to do it, I'd rather use the server? Anyway, keep up the good work.

posted by chris31




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 03:22:38 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
what I don't get is they are raving about the new fast search feature while MSN desktop search is the same thing , this shouldnt be a new feature that they are raving about


MSN desktop search is more of a limited subset of Longhorn's search features.

posted by DigitalDud




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:17:31 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:
let me ask you something to the IE Devs, Since IE doesn't really need to do heavy reading\writing to the hard drive while surfing the web
What about cookies, cache, and favourites? These are all stored on disk.

posted by Tyler Brown




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:19:56 GMT

Ya i want a longhorn loves rss t-shirt too (image) Btw i'm keeping track of all the articles and pictures currently that i find on my blog as well in this article incase anyone missed some

posted by ChrisChance




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:37:15 GMT

What a coincidence. Exactly a month ago I was trying to reach someone in MS who is doing work on RSS and my contact told me "there is no such group in MS". I went on to researching deep in this area and various technology options and wrote a paper on RSS and Calendar Integration (which got slashdotted later). I'm really interested to see how Amar's team implemented this functionality.

Regards,
Shital.
http://www.ShitalShah.com

posted by sytelus




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:53:22 GMT

Cool stuff guys, run with it.  Longhorn is not looking as bleak.

posted by rjdohnert




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:13:27 GMT

I second that t-shirt pledge (image)

being truly excited about developer possibilities with RSS integration

posted by gohai




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:21:02 GMT

MS discovers RSS (late) and it's a big deal? This has already been done by others. IE7 is due soon, Longhorn in 2006? Others are way ahead of the game when it comes to RSS. MS is not innovative, has nothing new or exciting, there are other players which have already done this stuff. Show us something new, don't copy, try to innovate.

posted by drylight




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:35:26 GMT

I haven't seen the video yet, but is this RSS functionality supposed to be exposed through the managed code?

posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:59:03 GMT

chris31 wrote:
I'm also not to excited about the calender feature as I don't know anyone that would publicly publish their calender and if they did I wouldn't care were they were 24/7? Perhaps usefull for business but worthless to a home user. .


iCal on OSX has had a feature for years that lets you share your calender, or subscribe to someone elses. You can choose from thousands of business and social groups.

Maybe you just want to know that your chess club meeting next week has be moved to a different time.

You don't have to include all your details in your shared calender, only those that you want other people to know about.

Lots of people seem to like and use this feature,
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ical/

posted by eddwo




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:43:06 GMT

drylight wrote:
MS discovers RSS (late) and it's a big deal? This has already been done by others. IE7 is due soon, Longhorn in 2006? Others are way ahead of the game when it comes to RSS. MS is not innovative, has nothing new or exciting, there are other players which have already done this stuff. Show us something new, don't copy, try to innovate.


Haha...I like people that say "Hey MS, don't copy, INNOVATE!. Look at Apple, they don't copy, it's just you who copies."

8-)

Suggest us, please, some "innovations" you'd like to see coming from MS!


posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:50:23 GMT

That's MS's job (to innovate), not mine. It just seems like this RSS in IE7 and Longhorn (due next year) is all over the bloggersphere when it's really nothing new. MS have not created something new, something cool, there is no "wow" factor in this. Others are already placing RSS in the software (or OS). RSS in IE7 (not yet available), already done by others. Searching accross all your files on your machine (due in Longhorn), already done. Tabs in IE7 (not yet available), already done. MS's products aren't exciting.

posted by drylight




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:03:31 GMT

drylight wrote:
That's MS's job (to innovate), not mine. It just seems like this RSS in IE7 and Longhorn (due next year) is all over the bloggersphere when it's really nothing new. MS have not created something new, something cool, there is no "wow" factor in this. Others are already placing RSS in the software (or OS). RSS in IE7 (not yet available), already done by others. Searching accross all your files on your machine (due in Longhorn), already done. Tabs in IE7 (not yet available), already done. MS's products aren't exciting.


Maybe for you MS products are not exciting but for me, from the developer's point of view, they are...

Have you considered Whidbey, Indigo, Avalon? This is what I call innovation.

posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:08:42 GMT

We may be looking at two slightly different angles here. I guess I am thinking about this more from an end-user point of view, not from a developer's. And that's not to say that I am completely closed to MS's innovations. I am a C# developer, and I like the language and .NET framework a lot. I certainly think they did a better job of creating a new language and managed/garbage collected, etc. development environment than what Sun did with Java. So I'm not completely anti-MS. (image)

posted by drylight




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:18:21 GMT

drylight wrote:
We may be looking at two slightly different angles here. I guess I am thinking about this more from an end-user point of view, not from a developer's. And that's not to say that I am completely closed to MS's innovations. I am a C# developer, and I like the language and .NET framework a lot. I certainly think they did a better job of creating a new language and managed/garbage collected, etc. development environment than what Sun did with Java. So I'm not completely anti-MS. (image)


OK, now I understand your opinions a bit better (image) but consider that as rich development framework MS (or anybody else) provides, as rich the end-user applications will be...

EDIT: What is currently your "wow" feature?

posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:48:11 GMT

I have to clear something up about MS ,innovation and copying (form the user perspective). I think the major innovative aspect that comes from MS is that it takes features (some new ones and some that have already been seen elsewhere) and joins them into one consistent big picture (Longhorn). All parts/features (applications, APIs etc.) are more or less able to cooperate and communicate since they are coming from one source. So allthough Longhorn contains a lot of features that have already been seen somewhere else (but spread across various autonomous applications/OSes/APIs that only work with and talk to themselfes or their kind) it is highly innovative beacuse it builds something new and unseen out of those building blocks.

Thats my major WOW feature for Longhorn: "WOW - I get all of those cool things in one box. And they will work hand in hand."

Despite all that as a user I really don't care who came up with what ideas first. If it works and does what I need, I use it. And it is most likely that the next OS by MS codenamed Longhorn will do what I need pretty well and most importantly - better than others.

posted by bonk




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:26:31 GMT

Some of you are looking at the Innovative part of Microsoft differently than expected. Yes, sometimes Microsoft does copy other products and features but they put their own work and team collaboration into it to make the product hell-of-a-lot better than the original.

Take this RSS idea, for example. I bet you a few billion $$ that it has way more enhancements than what we saw on the video presentation today. The only thing we can do now is laugh at the small guys and be anxious for these API's to be released.

My arms hurt.
Steve.

posted by Steve411




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:48:47 GMT

TomasDeml wrote:
I haven't seen the video yet, but is this RSS functionality supposed to be exposed through the managed code?


Exposed through managed code?

It's exposed through a documented set of API's. It shouldn't matter if it's managed or not.

posted by Jeremy W




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:51:03 GMT

Jeremy W. wrote:
(image) TomasDeml wrote:I haven't seen the video yet, but is this RSS functionality supposed to be exposed through the managed code?


Exposed through managed code?

It's exposed through a documented set of API's. It shouldn't matter if it's managed or not.

Yes, it does matter. Want to know why? Because we want to see CODE! (image)

posted by Steve411




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:14:20 GMT

Jeremy W. wrote:
(image) TomasDeml wrote:I haven't seen the video yet, but is this RSS functionality supposed to be exposed through the managed code?


Exposed through managed code?

It's exposed through a documented set of API's. It shouldn't matter if it's managed or not.


I have to disagree. If that API is managed or not  is crucial. And it wouldn't really make sense to make hat API an umanaged API. BTW: some of the demos shown in that video are said to be written in c# ....

posted by bonk




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:43:07 GMT

Longhorn seems to be a very big ship which is hard to steer, with releases taking many years, with infrequent updates. By the time it comes out others will have moved on to other things. For a lot of the things coming out they seem to be reactionary. When a competitor announces something in their product, you hear the MS guys saying, "yeah sure we got that in Longhorn". And if they actually don't have it in there, the release is so far away they could squeeze it in by then. Highly innovative? Because it builds on something new? Unseen? They are playing catch up. For example, they fell asleep with IE and now have ramped up development on it again. What else besides tabs and RSS are they doing? Anything new? When I see people using IE these days I always think "you're still using that?!?". Why people persits with it amazes me. Use Firefox (or Safari) for five minutes and you should be sold on it and dump IE, unless you need to visit some IE-only friendly web site.

posted by drylight




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 13:45:03 GMT

drylight wrote:
Longhorn seems to be a very big ship which is hard to steer, with releases taking many years, with infrequent updates. By the time it comes out others will have moved on to other things. For a lot of the things coming out they seem to be reactionary. When a competitor announces something in their product, you hear the MS guys saying, "yeah sure we got that in Longhorn". And if they actually don't have it in there, the release is so far away they could squeeze it in by then. Highly innovative? Because it builds on something new? Unseen? They are playing catch up. For example, they fell asleep with IE and now have ramped up development on it again. What else besides tabs and RSS are they doing? Anything new? When I see people using IE these days I always think "you're still using that?!?". Why people persits with it amazes me. Use Firefox (or Safari) for five minutes and you should be sold on it and dump IE, unless you need to visit some IE-only friendly web site.


I use FF and I have to admit that it's far better than current IE 6 but I'm also excited about IE 7; it won't get just RSS and tabs, there's gonna be much more in it (I hope (image) ). For example Low Right for IE 7 (in LH)...

posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 14:14:00 GMT

That Outlook-2-RssCalendar example is quite cool...

posted by TomasDeml




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:00:46 GMT

Just out of curiosity, can you guys post a screen capture of IE 7 for Windows XP?  Is it going to look like IE6 on Windows XP or are there some interface tweaks going to be coming down with it?  BTW I downloaded the video because it started to lag, its 176 mb.

posted by rjdohnert




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:11:24 GMT

drylight wrote:
MS discovers RSS (late) and it's a big deal? This has already been done by others. IE7 is due soon, Longhorn in 2006? Others are way ahead of the game when it comes to RSS. MS is not innovative, has nothing new or exciting, there are other players which have already done this stuff. Show us something new, don't copy, try to innovate.


This is more than IE 7.  If you think its just IE 7 you didnt watch the whole video.  they are integrating RSS into the entire platform. It will be easier for developers and content creators to integrate RSS everywhere.  I have heard that RSS will destroy traditional web browsing.  I doubt it, it will be complimentary people have to search and find the content before they subscribe.  Im a Netscape 8 user but I cant wait to see IE 7.  I think Microsoft is doing some very interesting and innovative things with RSS including IE 7.  I cant wait to see if IE7 RTM does indeed pass the Acid2 test.  Im not expecting the betas to, but maybe we will be surprised.  I dont like the new team name, "Longhorn Browsing and RSS", They should call it the "Windows Browsing and RSS" team

posted by rjdohnert




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:52:16 GMT

sad and funny how many folks seem to miss what the real "wow" is for this ...

it's not that MSFT just got hip to RSS.
thats about the last thing they were telling you.


1)  they will ship a set of classes and namespaces to make programming RSS simpler for windows. The goal is to make the basic plumbing "just work" for you and then you do not have to keep doing that part.

2)  they see that enclosures are a good thing that can be used much more creativly than they are used today.

3) they are publishing a set of guidelines for how they think RSS can work with more enclosure types.

4) the windows classes will handle a whole slew of enclosures "out of the box" for you.

5) the publising of this work follows creative commons cause they want to "Play nice" with the rest of the RSS world.

ok, so they did not show us how to do warp speed or time travel but the things I just listed see very good to me....

posted by figuerres




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:50:46 GMT

drylight wrote: Longhorn seems to be a very big ship which is hard to steer, with releases taking many years, with infrequent updates. By the time it comes out others will have moved on to other things. For a lot of the things coming out they seem to be reactionary. When a competitor announces something in their product, you hear the MS guys saying, "yeah sure we got that in Longhorn". And if they actually don't have it in there, the release is so far away they could squeeze it in by then. Highly innovative? Because it builds on something new? Unseen? They are playing catch up. For example, they fell asleep with IE and now have ramped up development on it again. What else besides tabs and RSS are they doing? Anything new? When I see people using IE these days I always think "you're still using that?!?". Why people persits with it amazes me. Use Firefox (or Safari) for five minutes and you should be sold on it and dump IE, unless you need to visit some IE-only friendly web site. I do understand that you feel the way you do. Allthough MS has been very open about the bowels of Longorn there is not yet too much thrilling to see from a plain user perspective. This antagonism paired with MJFism can lead to prejudices or to the kind of feeling that you have. One needs to keep in mind that longhorn is not even beta yet ( I know, it makes me sigh too ...) Form the developer's perspective however there is already quite long list of promising and innovative technolgies and concepts publically known and ready to explore. Further as a developer I find it r[...]



Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:51:50 GMT

Orbit86 wrote:

MS said they werent going for the Wow Factor...
Oh, you sure misunderstood something there. MS said they weren't going for the Wow Factor with the WinHEC 2005 build of Longhorn. You can rest assured that MS is the last one that wouldn't go for the wow experience, since that drives sales.
Orbit86 wrote:

I'm tried of Longhorn, but Linux is not ready for Desktop and OS X is better but costs too much to transfer

You read that MS ? That's what happens when you start milking the longhorn while it is still a calf.




posted by bonk




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:35:34 GMT

drylight wrote:
Longhorn seems to be a very big ship which is hard to steer, with releases taking many years, with infrequent updates. By the time it comes out others will have moved on to other things. For a lot of the things coming out they seem to be reactionary. When a competitor announces something in their product, you hear the MS guys saying, "yeah sure we got that in Longhorn". And if they actually don't have it in there, the release is so far away they could squeeze it in by then. Highly innovative? Because it builds on something new? Unseen? They are playing catch up. For example, they fell asleep with IE and now have ramped up development on it again. What else besides tabs and RSS are they doing? Anything new? When I see people using IE these days I always think "you're still using that?!?". Why people persits with it amazes me. Use Firefox (or Safari) for five minutes and you should be sold on it and dump IE, unless you need to visit some IE-only friendly web site.


All I know is, Longhorn users will have a lot of add on downloading to do between 2006 and 2008.

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:47:20 GMT

Seriously, the RSS button is uber-geeky. Pass the mom test? Hardly. Call it Subscribe.

I'm all for playing well, but you have to simplify when transitioning it to the mass market.

posted by BobSil1




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 18:57:25 GMT

Beer28 wrote:
I want to chime in and say that no one could pay me enough to wear one of those t-shirts.
Nice job on including rss subscriptions though.


Nobody would have to pay me to wear one of those shirts.  They just look cool.  How much would I need to pay to get one?

posted by rjdohnert




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:04:26 GMT

rjdohnert wrote:

Nobody would have to pay me to wear one of those shirts.  They just look cool.  How much would I need to pay to get one?

Sign me up as well. =)

posted by NetRyder




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:27:30 GMT

Jeremy W. wrote:


Exposed through managed code?

It's exposed through a documented set of API's. It shouldn't matter if it's managed or not.


I think there's a difference, from a security standpoint, between calling code via interop and calling managed API's to the .NET Framework. I *KNOW* there's a big difference between the two methods from the PITA standpoint. (image)

posted by Lazycoder2




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:14:19 GMT

rjdohnert wrote:
(image) Beer28 wrote: I want to chime in and say that no one could pay me enough to wear one of those t-shirts.
Nice job on including rss subscriptions though.


Nobody would have to pay me to wear one of those shirts.  They just look cool.  How much would I need to pay to get one?


I agree 100%, I would love to have one of those shirts, I asked for one earlier.

posted by Andre Da Costa




Re: Longhorn (heart) RSS

Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:38:35 GMT

I have to say, I don't like RSS.  RSS is like that XML document that you get that has all kinds of formatting issues, (I need to watch my language) just nested all over the place, and your boss says "Here now make this work in our application"...I liked when Microsoft had the webservices vision of everything, not this RSS vision of everything.  What RSS fails to address is the ability to post data as well as retrieve.  It assumes all data is shared and that nothing is typed.  **sigh**I guess I enjoy the intellisense in vs.net a little too much.  When the world is an item and nothing is typed, things start to get messy.  No data integrity, no reusable schemas, everything is just, whatever.Oh well... I guess we can all start using VB again and working in untyped languages.  And start doing XSLTs for a living.T

posted by Kosher