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Preview: Comments on: Tape verifies command to “Open Fire!” on students

Comments on: Tape verifies command to “Open Fire!” on students

General interest observations and true web-log.

Last Build Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2018 02:23:05 +0000


By: Lewy

Wed, 02 May 2007 18:15:14 +0000

I wish. I had just arrived in Ohio to install a major computer system when the shooting happened. I went to lunch with a group of clients, mostly managers of a distributed IT installation, and I sat in awe as they talked about how the students got what they deserved. The consensus was that if they (the protesters) came to their houses, they would feel fully justified in shooting any that threw a rock. At least some of our citizens were quite happy to answer any perceived difference from their viewpoint with guns and death.

By: Mel

Wed, 02 May 2007 18:05:30 +0000

To support number 29, here is a part of an article published by the Washington Times.... "Larry Shafer, a former Guardsman who said he fired during the shootings and was among those charged, told the Kent-Ravenna Record-Courier newspaper on Tuesday that he was unaware of the tape and that "point" would not have been part of a proper command. "I never heard any command to fire. That's all I can say on that," Shafer, a Ravenna city councilman and former fire chief, told the newspaper. "That's not to say there may not have been, but with all the racket and noise, I don't know how anyone could have heard anything that day." The FBI, which investigated whether an order had been given to fire, said at the time it could only speculate. One theory was that a Guardsman panicked or fired intentionally at a student and that others fired when they heard the shot."

By: MikeN

Wed, 02 May 2007 16:50:40 +0000

The New York Times couldn't hear the commands on the tape except for 'point' Through grainy static and the high-pitched calls of protesters, it was possible to faintly hear someone shout “Point!” Mr. Canfora said the full command is recorded on the tape, with multiple voices shouting “Right here!” “Get Set!” Point!” and “Fire!” Those words, however, were difficult to discern when he played the recording.

By: MikeN

Wed, 02 May 2007 15:53:45 +0000

Yeah ending the draft just about shut down these student protests. I think that lesson was learned this time around. Hopefully they also learned the lesson of not withdrawing support, which led to the fall of South Vietnam.

By: Hawkeye666

Wed, 02 May 2007 13:51:46 +0000

One of the most important results of that terrible day was that the entire country became painfully aware of how far our government had gone from hearing and representing the voice of the people. More than any other single event the massacre at Kent State forced the country to finally work to bring an end to an unjust war that had been started escalated and managed with immeasurable incompetence. Gee, sound familiar? Once again we have failed to learn from history and therefore have repeated it. I am of the Kent State generation and to hear some of the ill-informed statesments in this post tears at my heart and proves to me that the failure to teach the history of that era is in part the reason so many Americans have allowed an equalled un-just and ill-advised war in Iraq to happen and continue.

By: OhForTheLoveOf

Wed, 02 May 2007 13:29:28 +0000

#34 - Now that's a good post...

By: Smartalix

Wed, 02 May 2007 02:26:56 +0000

29, As a vet myself, I can easily believe a weekend warrior losing it and not giving proper orders in a combination of fear and incompetence. Here's a useful link:

By: Mel

Wed, 02 May 2007 01:38:02 +0000

I am currently a student at Kent State University and my father was a sophomore at Kent and in the ROTC in 1970 (the year the shooting happened) I have heard numerous rumors, stories and opinions about the May 4th tragedy all my life. One thing is for certain, it doesn't matter if you think the National Guard was right in firing or if you think it was completely wrong to even consider shooting, what matters is that 4 students were killed that day and many others were injured... It was a tragedy, those students deserved to be remembered. So for those of you who are calling them dirty hippie protesters or garbage or whatever, they are human beings and the funny thing is the students that were killed weren't even protesting, they were innocent bystanders walking to class. I agree completely with number 3... this new evidence doesn't matter it happened a long time ago and its not going to change the fact that 4 people are dead. I also agree with number 12, this was a very chaotic event, we will probably never know what happened because there are so many stories circulating. On one hand, you have the guards who felt that they were threatened so for some reason a shot was fired and from then on it was chaos and on the other hand you have students protesting for what they believe in and they have the right to do that without being harmed. This event will always be controversial! And I'm not trying to take sides, but if there was a order to fire, weren't the guards only following orders? Being at Kent State, I have watched videos and documentaries interviewing some of the guards that were there that day, and these guards said while the shootings were going on all that was going through their mind was "this is wrong, this is wrong," and how they feel horrible to this day and they have no idea how something like this could have happened and how they have to live with this for the rest of their lives. They said it was complete chaos that day. Whatever the truth is, it shouldn't matter, it happened a long time ago and there are more important answers we need to be searching for, like answers for the Virginia Tech shooting. All we can do is look back and remember what happened that day, and learn from people's mistakes so something like this doesn't happen again. Since May 4th is coming up... I don't know about you, but what I will be doing that day is remembering and attending the memorial service that is held each year, I'm sorry but instead of debating why or how this happened, try remembering the tragedy that day and how EVERYONE was affected by it.

By: OhForTheLoveOf

Wed, 02 May 2007 01:19:11 +0000

#28 - #13 - Content is a pretty strong word when judging my posts. Comment by James Hill — 5/1/2007 @ 2:17 pm 1000 points to James for a rare moment of self-reflexive humor and self-awareness.

By: Rog

Wed, 02 May 2007 00:08:54 +0000

#30 pretty much nails it. I was a pro-war freshman at a campus 20 miles away from Kent State. The dead rotc student never protested the war and actually planned a career in the military. Blame Gov Rocky Rhodes who wanted to be seen as tough when running for re-election.

By: Deborah

Wed, 02 May 2007 00:07:17 +0000

As I understand it from a book I read on the subject a few years bac some of the people illed were not even involved in the protest is that correct? Vietnam destroyed so many people not just the ones who died over there but many who lived to come home as well. While sitting in the waiting room of intensive care at the VA hospital waiting for the doctor to tell me when my husband was going to die (exposure to agent orange) I met a women who's husband had just put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger the only way he found to stop the nightmares he had had for 30 years they both died on the same day at the age of 52. Now we will have a whole new generation who will suffer for the rest of their lives. That's the real cost of war, every war, it's just with Vietnam and now Iraq the price seems so senseless.

By: Dave J

Tue, 01 May 2007 23:42:52 +0000

Get the facts straight: 1. The protesters did not fire at the Guard before being fired upon. Several of them did throw rocks from a distance, and a couple threw back tear gas canisters fired by the Guard. 2. The ROTC building was torched--two nights before. How was this provocation for being shot at? 3. All but two of the wounded were shot through the side or the back, not the front--hardly a direct threat to the Guard. 4. One of the dead, Bill Schroeder, was an ROTC member on the way to class. 5. The closest students to the Guard were over 70 feet away, again not a direct threat requiring armed action. 6. The closest student to the Guard who was killed was 265 feet, almost a football field, away. 7. Shots were fired by 28 different armed Guardsmen at the unarmed students. The burning of the ROTC building, and the vandalism in Kent the weekend prior, was criminal, but to say that the shootings were justified, given the facts, is preposterous. The latest audio clip just confirms it. Why has it taken 37 years for this to reach the light of day?

By: Lynn

Tue, 01 May 2007 22:21:37 +0000

Having spent 22 years in the military, I have never heard the order "Get set, point, fire." Sounds like some civilian giving orders. A military person would have said, "Ready, aim, fire." What's up here?

By: James Hill

Tue, 01 May 2007 22:17:53 +0000

#13 - Content is a pretty strong word when judging my posts.


Tue, 01 May 2007 18:34:09 +0000

During MLK's PEACEful demonstrations it has been shown and proven that the Gov. (FBI, CIA, Whomever) had instigated a few to cause Mayham to disperse the group and Force police into PROTECTION phase.. But its also the FACT... That 1 person, in one GROUP can cause the whole thing to turn into a mess. 1 person with a few fire crackers, or even a POP GUN, real or otherwise, as a NUTCASE, could have cause the WHOLE thing to Disintegrate into a MESS. It actually takes 2...1 IDIOT NUT, and 1 paranoid NUT. consider how many were wounded, and how many were killed. 13 seconds of Fireing, would Empty ALL weapons... the SMART ones Aimed Over there heads or at trees. But TRUTH is what is wanted/needed here. there were to many LIES in that time. Mostly from the Gov. What would have made this go AWAY? Easy...NO military or reserves... Little or NO media coverage... And the faculty NOT paying attention to it...