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Preview: Comments on LOST Theories: Critical analysis of The End by Jacob's Creek

Comments on LOST Theories: Critical analysis of The End by Jacob's Creek





Updated: 2015-06-08T05:31:03.976+01:00

 



All the reasons why you guys didn't like.........

2010-07-09T00:29:09.813+01:00

All the reasons why you guys didn't like.................... is why I loved it.... New... fresh. broke barriers. It didn't follow "the rules of writing." It was brilliant in my eyes. Why break it down after following for so long. Enjoy it..



I'm not really sure why people find the need t...

2010-06-27T10:51:13.130+01:00

I'm not really sure why people find the need to be condescending towards people that disagree. Nobody needs your pity, it's just a tv show. As much as I dislike people wearing the "writer" badge to push their opinion above the "uncreative masses," there are objective concepts of good and bad writing. If you want to simply say "everyone has their own opinion," any piece of fiction will be as good or bad as you want it and all discussion becomes irrelevant.I agree that the finale was moving, but feel free to point out these layers and subtext I'm not seeing. I thought it was the opposite: considering this was the end of the show, the subtext was brought to the surface and everybody more or less said what they were feeling. The fact that the layers were gone is what made it moving for me.1. Everyone did die in the end, because the story and character resolutions take place in the flashsideways. People got off at the end, but how relevant was that to the show? As Lost itself says, the most important part of their lives was the time they spent on the Island. We never see what happens after they leave, and apparently it wasn't very important. So, had Kate, Sawyer and everyone else just died in the end rather than escape, the story wouldn't have changed very much. It didn't matter that they survived, again because everyone dies at the end anyway.2. The focus of the criticism is not on shifting heavily towards faith. The show has been setting that up from the start, and it was clear that Jack's entire arc would revolve around making a change from science to faith. The episode is being criticized for rendering a large portion of the previous episodes almost unnecessary. I was not disappointed that the story ends in the afterlife, I was disappointed that all of the previous flashsideways were written out of the character's stories.As for science and faith, it gets a little dangerous to compare Lost to real life. Lost is a tv show, and if it sets up questions, it is expected to answer them. Setting up mysteries for five years and then resolving them with "questions lead to more questions" or "we don't have the answers in real life so how could the show give answers" is poor writing. Reality doesn't matter. A piece of fiction should be able to answer questions of internal consistency; being unable to do that shows that the writers have a poor understanding of their own story.Similarly, faith and science don't work the same way in real life. Whereas science is only able to answer some questions, faith doesn't answer any questions. Faith is a response to the lack of answer. I also don't see how Lost's finale was heavily reliant on faith. They make a big deal of Jack having to take a leap of faith, but pretty much everything he had to do was spelled out for him, by Jacob, then by Desmond. I don't see what faith has to do with putting a rock back into a light. When it was pulled out, the Island started collapsing so the logical thing to do would be put it back. There isn't any other choice, and there's nothing left to lose. This seems more like science. If anything, Desmond is one who had faith. He pulled the stone out hoping he'd go to the flashsideways. His faith failed him.3. The problem with this is that the Island story was over a long time ago. Did anyone believe MIB would get off the Island? Did anyone believe Jack wouldn't fulfill his destiny? Even without the specifics, we already knew how the Island story was going to end. The flashsideways was the big mystery of the season, and making it all a dream knocked the strongest pillar out. I'm not really sure what character resolutions you feel took place on the Island besides Jack's. All of the resolutions occurred in the flashsideways for me. The Island characters outside of Jack and Sawyer have been mostly static after their respective centric episodes.[...]



that's it in a nutshell...OK Lost ending didn&...

2010-06-24T11:01:53.154+01:00

that's it in a nutshell...OK Lost ending didn't work for this particular poster....I get that...but Lost's ending worked just fine for me and many others.

Lost came down on the side of a spiritual resolution as opposed to a scientific one. OK...what theories in science would have brought Lost to a satisfiying emotional conclusion without required the viewing audience to have PhD in physics to understand it.. Or wouldn't have had just as many complaining that LOST cheated by negating the previous five seasons or the end was "too science fictiony" or whatever. That wouldn't have looked like an episode of ST TNG. I personally loved the episode where Worf is jumping from reality to reality but there's no guarentee a similar idea would have worked here. The themes running through LOST were not the same.

LOST picked a side...the faith side. That's where those writers felt the story went...just like any writer posting critques online would feel about their own work. That choice has bothered the sci fi group within the LOST fandom...but what preferable....going with the story or pleasing one particular group of fans?

Bottom line....it's impossible to please every fan of any piece of fictional work...especially in an age where every little bit of that work is analyised and every comment of the writer or creator is scrutinized online at moment's notice.

So why bother? Go where the story goes and for those that don't like it ....



I think it's funny how many "writers"...

2010-06-22T09:26:50.050+01:00

I think it's funny how many "writers" come here to claim that the writing was poor for the finale... as if a checklist from someone's Literature 102 class is what defines good writing. What defines good writing, especially in a format such as TV, is entirely objective and based on whether it moved the observer. I found the ending moving and layered with interesting subtext. And I am far from the only one.

That being said, there are some simple rebuts to much of what you have written here.

1. They did not all die in the end. Yes, obviously everyone was dead in the flash sideways... everyone dies sometime. But the fact is 6 losties escaped from the island and lived on... thanks to Jack's sacrifice. Also Hurley and Ben went on to run the island.

2. This WAS a religious/faith based show from day 1. Go back to the pilot and tell me what "science" you see. Because what I see is a plane crash with an inexplicable number of survivors, an unexplainable pillar of black smoke and a paralyzed man who's able to walk again after falling from the sky. The show was laced with religious undertones throughout it's entirety. The fact that faith beat out science in the finale is due to the fact that science was just a vehicle used by humans who continually tried to exploit the island. Science was ALWAYS the "bad guy" on the island. And ultimately, even in our non-lost world, science does take a back seat to faith because the answers provided by science always meet a bottleneck who's throughput can only be increased through faith. For instance, science explains the beginning of the universe with the Big Bang Theory, which remains a theory. To believe in that theory requires faith. Science also cannot answer the question, "what preceded the Big Bang." Just as Other Mother said, all your questions will simply lead to other questions. Shame on anyone for being surprised that science was ultimately relegated to the tail section of the show... you should know that science remains unequipped to answer the big questions, be they in the Lost world or ours.

3. You seem to only concentrate on the flash sideways aspect of the finale, which was, I agree, an illusion of sorts. But the conclusion of the island story was not. As Jack said, It mattered and was chock full of character resolution that you seem to have glossed over in your single viewing.

I suppose I could go on, but I'm not here to change minds or make a case for or against you. You are an observer just as I am and saw and felt what you saw and felt. But I do feel sorry for you as I do for most of those who commented on this diatribe. I feel sorry that you weren't emotionally moved like I was, or felt a sense of completion like I did. What a bummer for you and your ilk, because while I felt and feel lasting joy because of the End, you feel anger and betrayal.

I guess I'm lucky I'm not a writer.

Namaste.



No one is telling you to agree - no on is trying t...

2010-06-11T16:10:17.091+01:00

No one is telling you to agree - no on is trying to convince you. However, every interaction I & a few others have had with you has been confrontational when we don't agree with you. This is why your comments are being removed, because they have been insulting at points. I like the disagreement that has happened on here as it has led to a number of great discussions that I have throughly enjoyed, regardless of my opinion of the finale. Discussion is the key word there - these were discussions with people who were respectful of my opinions and I was respectful of theirs. I respect your right to love the finale as it stands - please respect my right (& others) to not feel the same way. Many people who feel just as you do are bringing great points into the discussion without calling me or anyone else a baby.



You don't think season six could have been bet...

2010-06-11T15:01:57.829+01:00

You don't think season six could have been better. With all respect, maybe your imagination is limited.



David wasn't really needed. Jack could resolv...

2010-06-11T14:54:52.558+01:00

David wasn't really needed. Jack could resolve his daddy issues by talking to his daddy. He didn't need a "fake" son.



We should expect a mystery show to not suddenly mo...

2010-06-11T14:36:26.359+01:00

We should expect a mystery show to not suddenly morph into the season finale of Ghost Whisperer. All fantasy and sugar coating with none of the nutrition.



im beginning to wonder why its ok to call me a sta...

2010-06-11T12:56:07.346+01:00

im beginning to wonder why its ok to call me a starving man satisfied with scraps and then when i defend myself my comments are removed. so im just supposed to agree with that statement?? who are you trying to convince?



Seriously - why do people have to resort to this. ...

2010-06-11T06:26:37.018+01:00

Seriously - why do people have to resort to this. We have differing opinions about the finale - that should be OK for all to discuss. That's why we're here. I'm beginning to wonder who you're trying to convince.



and you like a glutton dying in in his own feces.

2010-06-11T05:49:47.846+01:00

and you like a glutton dying in in his own feces.



What is so well-crafted and original about "i...

2010-06-10T19:39:32.936+01:00

What is so well-crafted and original about "it was all a dream"? That's all he is saying. He is analyzing the structure of the story and all of his numbered points are about that.

You say you are a writer. Yet, you condone shoddy and over-used plot devices for a series that's known for breaking boundaries.

You say he is not being objective. How so? What possible bias could he have, offering his opinion of a tv show?

You say he has only criticized without being constructive. Kind of like your comment. If you want to be constructive, attack his points instead of simply stating he is wrong.



@ "the afterlife could just be a different di...

2010-06-10T17:18:06.241+01:00

@ "the afterlife could just be a different dimension, who knows."


it could very well be... and that dimension perhaps is accessible via the island. I was always an ALT guy, and still maintain that desmond was the key to that notion on the show.

if you look back at potential reasons for hawking not wanting desmond to disturb things -- the season 6 flash sideways now garners clues as to what her reasons may have been all along.

and the ALT / FSW connection with Hawkings presence in each trying to run the show and manipulate events, and desmond being cystal clear to what the deal is with that ALT / FSW reality in the finale...... it gives us a lot more to think about in terms of what we were shown before and how it all fits together.
I



Like a starving man is satisfied with scraps, poor...

2010-06-10T12:29:08.287+01:00

Like a starving man is satisfied with scraps, poor thing.



I am a writer. I am a sci-fi geek. I loved the fin...

2010-06-10T06:14:02.299+01:00

I am a writer. I am a sci-fi geek. I loved the finale. You're complaining about Lost breaking The Cardinal Rules of Writing. How dare the most groundbreaking, innovative series of all television break rules? (And I have enjoyed and praised other shows more than Lost, but it is without a doubt the most daring series television has ever seen, despite being primetime on a major network). You call it lazy manipulation; I call it well-crafted originality. Tomayto, tomahto.

You have not critically analyzed the finale. You have only criticized. There is nothing constructive or even objective in your analysis. If you had written "Criticism of End," I would not be so disappointed in what I read. But of course, you wanted people to actually read your complaints.

I really can’t comprehend why the people who loved this show so much are so quick to insult both the writers' skills and the audience's intelligence just because they didn't get the ending or answers they wanted.

You are entitled to your opinion about the finale, but so are all of us who are still fans.



u feel bad for me that i loved the show and finale...

2010-06-10T02:11:58.111+01:00

u feel bad for me that i loved the show and finale and feel completely,satisfied? okkkkkkk



Yeah, I think your furthering what I was saying. I...

2010-06-09T21:23:12.226+01:00

Yeah, I think your furthering what I was saying. I am not commenting so much on the finale as a closure to the series but on if it was a great twist or surprise. By making us second guess the FSW from the get-go I feel they cheapened the weight of its reveal later on.

Like I, and yourself, was saying, I knew it wasn't right so by the time they told me it wasn't right, but it wasn't right because it was the afterlife, not an alternate universe, I was just like well ok, that's cool, whens Justified on, haha JK on the last part. Maybe because I'm not that religious it didn't weigh on me but to me its almost the same thing for all we know, the afterlife could just be a different dimension, who knows.

This comparison is cliched at this point but its still good. In the 6th Sense I personally had no clue he was dead the whole time, my brother-in-law is the only person I know who said they figured it out midway through (I think he full of shit), anyway, because I had no inclination throughout the movie that reveal was like "Getttt the fuck outtaa here" where as Lost was like good for you Jack, Sawyer still got her first, Jin/Sun why isn't your daughter there, Claire how many times have you had this baby?, I didn't know people could die in the afterlife, and Locke why didn't you skip on the cab, it isn't real dummy...Instead of que *picking jaw off floor*....



its like what David Schwimmer told Larry David abo...

2010-06-09T21:02:03.671+01:00

its like what David Schwimmer told Larry David about his dad's cashew/raisin idea -- we all can imagine what would be the best.... but......STAY IN YOUR ELEMENT.



im agreeing with phil on this one. @mhkm "I...

2010-06-09T20:59:21.933+01:00

im agreeing with phil on this one.

@mhkm "I mean we all knew something was wrong with he flash-sideways"

you are absolutely right. memories were hashed out weirdly, photos were poorly photoshopped -- it was PURPOSELY designed for the audience to feel uneasy about it, like it wasn't quite real -- although it wasn't fake. you were being prepped since the beginning of the season for that moment in the finale, and i agree with phil that the ending they went with was profound and meaningful to me. i didnt expect all the answers, and this way each audience member can flesh out their own connection with the story, and what the phenomena of the story play into the ultimate closure for you personally. theres something for everyone i think in that vein.



Thank you for this analysis - you put into words w...

2010-06-09T20:41:27.886+01:00

Thank you for this analysis - you put into words what I could not because each time I tried, emotion won out and I couldn't get my thoughts straight. Although, not a critical analysis - more of a pet theory of mine; I think Darlton must have seen the movie "Passengers". They complained at the end of season 5 how hard writing time travel turned out to be without using a "Biff Tannen" type moment of the Losties talking to their former/current selves. Instead of continuing on with the time travel through season 6 - they went for the easy out with the Alt timeline i.e. they're all dead. I saw the movie "Passengers" by accident shortly before the finale and in my heart of hearts I hoped the writers were not going to end Lost this way. If you get a chance to see it - it wasn't that good (predicatable) but you'll see what I mean. Thanks again for the analysis.



I had to rewatch twice the finale before having an...

2010-06-09T17:01:09.708+01:00

I had to rewatch twice the finale before having an objective opinion, because I had mixed feelings when I watched it the first time.
I agree with you regarding the fact that they should have avoided all the limbo stuffs.
Even if, after a lot of reflection, I accepted it and I do understand why they choose to do that, I still think it has been useless even in the characters development, because everything, they lived for or help them to get redemption, happened on the island, when they were alive. So it was just a filler to replace Flashbacks and Flashforwards, as the show always had something to alternate with on-island storyline.

But I don't agree with the rest of the analysis. I don't get the point to be so angry for not knowing about the life of the ones who left. When a show or a movie comes to an end, you do not know what happends next to its characters, you can just imagine, if you really feel the need.

Other things that got my attention:
the island being underwater - as the limbo was something they have created, according what they believed to deserve or wished to have, they wanted that the island has never existed or that Faraday's plan worked.
Eloise saying that Desmond's actions were a violation - rules have always been central in the show, anyway, I think Eloise was referring to the fact that Des wouldn't have had to forced the events, leading his friends to remember. He had to let them remember by themselves, as Daniel was starting to do.



well thought out, well worded. i don't agree w...

2010-06-09T05:29:56.646+01:00

well thought out, well worded. i don't agree with much of it, but i can appreciate your effort.

who ever writes by the rules has ruled out soul.

not to say they were brilliant in their conclusion of this epic series, but that's not going to spoil the ride for me. there were many exciting events in the first two seasons. here and there, it excelled and often it didn't get to the height of a previous episode. such is life.

and tv, sadly, will never be great anyway.



whoa whoa whoa, hold on a sec! I didnt say anythin...

2010-06-09T05:28:18.072+01:00

whoa whoa whoa, hold on a sec! I didnt say anything about being "correct", nor have I called anyone brainless.

For the sake of redundancy, I loved the show, the same as others. Even I found myself extending extra grace for the finale out of my "love" for the show. Despite that, I still found the finale sorely wanting. As a point of view; in my opinion; personal preference (and apparently a underground minority) I had hoped for more from the finale and expected them to bring some real completion to the narrative, beyond the sentimentality of the characters. There were crucial plots, story lines and driving themes that were left blatantly hanging.

I personally enjoyed certain aspects of the finale, however felt it was incomplete and rather hollow. I loved the series overall, which only amplified my disappointment with the finale.

If youre "hurt" by other's opinions of the show, then I really dont know what to tell you. People will have opinions.



Don't worry, we feel bad for you, too. :-)

2010-06-09T04:25:40.685+01:00

Don't worry, we feel bad for you, too. :-)



Thank you - my feelings exactly.

2010-06-09T03:35:00.787+01:00

Thank you - my feelings exactly.