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Preview: Comments on pilgrimsteps: Motherhood, housework, and who irons the clothes?

Comments on pilgrimsteps: Motherhood, housework, and who irons the clothes?





Updated: 2011-09-05T11:43:17.688-07:00

 



This is my first time on your blog Jana, and I hav...

2007-12-17T15:38:00.000-08:00

This is my first time on your blog Jana, and I have to say I really had no idea so many women had trouble with that talk. I for one can see both sides. I however would have to disagree at the way anonymous has gone about sharing their feelings. It's never our place to judge someone else...ever. Or at least you could have gone about sharing your ideas with a little more kindness.
I guess I had just assumed that the house-cleaning was only part of the nurturing, after all, spending time with my children is what I consider to be the REAL nurturing, not a spotless house. We just all have to remember that even though that was a conference talk we have to listen to the spirit as we hear these talks- for our own personal message, they may all be different. Sister Parkin (the last Genreal R.S. Pres.) was my mission mom and she always taught us this. If we are always striving to be close to the spirit, we can not go wrong. It will do us absolutely no good to waste our precious time being angry at Sis. Beck.
Jana, you an amazing, strong and wonderful human being....I love your insights!



Neither of you is being very Quakerly. Perhaps yo...

2007-10-23T14:51:00.000-07:00

Neither of you is being very Quakerly. Perhaps you should spend some time contemplating that.

Not really, but I couldn't really thing of any other accusatory Quaker stuff to bring down on you.



johnr: Can you tell that this is raw for me, too? ...

2007-10-22T12:35:00.000-07:00

johnr: Can you tell that this is raw for me, too? I'm amazed at how my whole tone and demeanor change when someone gets all self-righteous and mormon-y on me. Can't stand it at all. Definitely picking at a raw wound there. And because I'm not much of a masochist, I just want to GET AWAY from whoever's hurting me so badly (tho I don't seem to mind flinging a bit of poo in their direction as I run).



This is mainly to Jana, but I welcome any thoughts...

2007-10-22T12:12:00.000-07:00

This is mainly to Jana, but I welcome any thoughts from friends or empathetic commenters as well: My response to anonymous is very strong--almost visceral, and I'm trying to understand this. If it's the empathy and understanding of my LDS friends who kept me struggling in the Church as long as I did, it's the arrogant, self-righteous attitude of people like anonymous who made me feel like I couldn't get away fast enough (and who make me avoid the 'nacle as well).

Every time I feel like the wounds have healed over, and I can start trying to be friendly towards the Church again, something like this comes along...*sigh* I think this whole healing thing is going to take a long time.

Maybe that's the bottom line: I feel deeply wounded: by the Church and its teachings, by its members and leaders (however well-intended) and by monotheistic religion in general. It takes restraint to avoid trying to hurt back. I think this is why I can't engage with Mormonism the way that Jana is courageously trying to do (and I fully support her in it, and she respects my desire for distance).

Jana, sorry for the threadjack. I knew from day one that you had dreams that couldn't be contained within the walls of our domicile, and that your ambition, intelligence, and career pursuits would make you an excellent partner and parent and example to all of us. You're you, thoroughly and authentically you, and you're one of the most compassionate, moral, sensitive people I know (and I've known you long enough to know every foible) and I wouldn't have you any other way. :*



fwiw anonymous, I think you've got the wrong blog-...

2007-10-22T11:35:00.000-07:00

fwiw anonymous, I think you've got the wrong blog--I'm not the Exponent writer who's been discussing her work outside the home (I work part-time only when my teenage kids are in school)...so go bother someone else.

besides that, spending time on my knees if right near impossible for me considering the fact that one of them was long ago cremated...



To anonymous:My name isn't Caroline and I'm one DI...

2007-10-22T11:29:00.000-07:00

To anonymous:
My name isn't Caroline and I'm one DIRTY girl (not that it's any of your business, of course) because I just spent half an hour spreading steer manure in my garden. I know that my lovely plants don't grow without plenty of poo. And its part of my job as a good MOTHER and HOMEMAKER and gardener to make sure that my family is well-fed with tasty organic foodstuffs.

And as much as I'm tempted to delete your rude comment, I'm going to let it stay. Because it's a perfect example of the kind of smelly shmuck that's dished out by patriarchal Mormon ogres whose smug self-satisfaction is far stinkier (and much more repulsive) than anything I've been shoveling recently.



I think in all the examples you gave the men and w...

2007-10-22T11:17:00.000-07:00

I think in all the examples you gave the men and women there clean up as much as they could. The gospel is very simple. It sounds like if anybody has a problem with what Sister Beck said (in any way shape or form) need to spend time on their knees. You can try to justify your working. And your are right there are a small number of people through no fault of their own have to work to support their family (divorced women who's husbands wanted nothing to do with then, or try to repair their marriage, or widowed sisters who’s Husbands died prematurely). But the majority of the "whiners" are people through their BAD choices have ended up either having to be the bread winner of the family because there is no one else or because the WANT to, to support a life style. The difference is the Lord will judge those that have to live this way and those that chose to live this way differently.

Sister Beck's talk angered those Sisters and Brothers that need to rearrange their beliefs and feeling towards the gospel plan, just like President Hinckley angered those people that have anger problems. Both need to spend time on their knees. Good Luck.



Having a clean house is the same as having a clean...

2007-10-22T10:56:00.000-07:00

Having a clean house is the same as having a clean soul. The spirit cannot dwell in any unclean place, especially a home.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Really, you can't be serious. If you subscribe to this simplistic logic, every prophetic utterance and angelic visitation in filthy conditions (say, Liberty Jail) were w/o the Spirit, and infamous 20th century dictators who were obsessed with cleanliness had blameless souls!

Seriously: it's encounters with this sort of smug self-righteousness and utter absence of understanding and compassion (in this case, I'm thinking of single and working LDS moms who feel even smaller after hearing a talk like this) that make me want to stay far, far away from the Church (unfortunately, this often keeps me away from the good apples as well). I may even share this comment thread with my children as an object lesson.




2007-10-22T10:06:00.000-07:00

This comment has been removed by the author.



I am amazed that any women in the Church would hav...

2007-10-22T06:32:00.000-07:00

I am amazed that any women in the Church would have any problems with this talk.

A. It was said over the pulpit at General Confence, which means it is what the Lord wanted to be said, and is modern day scripture.

B. She said nothing new. All of what she said has been the Churches position for years and years.

C. Having a clean house is the same as having a clean soul. The spirit cannot dwell in any unclean place, especially a home.

Caroline - Glad to hear that you are glad you missed the Leaders of the Lords church teaching us in this modern age as well. Good Luck.



Wow, this talk was a doozy. I'm so glad I missed i...

2007-10-10T21:06:00.000-07:00

Wow, this talk was a doozy. I'm so glad I missed it. It probably would have driven me to tears of disgust and anger.

I like your last paragraph, Jana. As someone who is sanitationally challenged, I'd like to think there's still hope for me to be a good parent.



I should add that I meant the above comment only i...

2007-10-09T12:45:00.000-07:00

I should add that I meant the above comment only in terms of Pres Beck's definition. By every other imaginable definition of the phrase "women who know", all of my female friends are "in the know."



amelia:I didn't have the knee-jerk reaction to thi...

2007-10-09T07:29:00.000-07:00

amelia:
I didn't have the knee-jerk reaction to this talk that many women did, but it pains me that it has hurt so many of my sisters--especially those who aren't in a position to be "women who know" for all kinds of good reasons.



ah, but jana, didn't you see where she said that n...

2007-10-08T23:46:00.000-07:00

ah, but jana, didn't you see where she said that nurturing = house-cleaning?

this particular talk made me so angry that i swore at president beck while she was speaking. a first, i think. i don't typically react to conference talks by swearing.

i appreciate some elements of her message (the point about simplicity resonates with me, too). but as a whole it made me angry and sad. is being the best homemakers in the world really the highest we can ask our women to strive for?