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Preview: Comments on CADRE Comments: Poll: Atheists and Agnostics are Less Charitable a...

Comments on CADRE Comments: Poll: Atheists and Agnostics are Less Charitable and At Peace





Updated: 2017-11-24T02:08:01.804-08:00

 



You mean this book: The Psychology of Religion: An...

2007-08-17T15:24:00.000-07:00

You mean this book: The Psychology of Religion: An Empirical Approach, Spilka, Bernard; Hood, Ralph W., Jr.; and Gorsuch, Richard L. (1985)? The one where they apparently try to equate religious experience with drug induced experiences?

Let's see, CSP says about the book:

While this study is not without its serious methodological flaws, it remains the only study



There outta be a law against any of you reviewing ...

2007-08-17T13:44:00.000-07:00

There outta be a law against any of you reviewing studies because you haven't taken Statistics 101. The problem is this:

"The study further found atheists and agnostics to be younger, more likely to be male and unmarried, earn more and more likely to be college graduates."

These are what you call "confounding variables." If ANY of these other characteristics - youth, being male,



Jason: Thanks for the defense, that was indeed my...

2007-07-13T16:20:00.000-07:00

Jason: Thanks for the defense, that was indeed my point.

I disagree with the view that "giving is giving" and even if some tiny percentage of what you give gets to the right folks and the rest is wasted, that's better than not giving at all. While it could be, it need not be. The wasted money could actually have *negative* effects, e.g., if it's being embezzled, spent on drugs,



I think Jim was making an importantly related poin...

2007-06-19T09:37:00.000-07:00

I think Jim was making an importantly related point about proper responsibility in giving. i.e., I don't think he was trying to show that church donations should be viewed any differently than the funds that atheists and agnostics donate out.

One might tease a crit from his response, along the line that we might tend to be more trusting of our institutions than we ought to be, because of



Hi Jim Lippard,I don't see how your response addre...

2007-06-18T06:17:00.000-07:00

Hi Jim Lippard,

I don't see how your response addressess my point at all.
People, at an individual level, have their own reasons for donating. Your response doesn't address that, it just talks about what the receiver of those donations do with the funds.
So? Can those funds be used inappropriately? Certainly. But that's across the board. Also, considering that this thread



I was thinking those posts had mostly nothing to d...

2007-06-18T00:51:00.000-07:00

I was thinking those posts had mostly nothing to do with the OP.

-Cam



Ed,Please stay on point. Reams of comments making...

2007-06-17T10:43:00.000-07:00

Ed,

Please stay on point. Reams of comments making mostly tangential points are not helpful. If you want to contribute to this topc, please narrow your focus and condense your material.




2007-06-17T07:06:00.000-07:00

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.




2007-06-17T06:56:00.000-07:00

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.



Hello Jim,I agree in part and disagree in another ...

2007-06-17T06:20:00.000-07:00

Hello Jim,

I agree in part and disagree in another part. I agree that we need to be careful where we give money. I ordinarily don't give money to organizations unless at least 85% of the funds given go to the work of the charity and not the cost of fundraising.

I disagree in part because I think that Anonymous's sentiments were correct in light of the point. The question



"Does it matter where the funds went to? Giving is...

2007-06-16T15:59:00.000-07:00

"Does it matter where the funds went to? Giving is giving."

I strongly disagree. In my opinion, it's just as important to research where you give charitable funds as it is to research where you invest money. There are a lot of charitable organizations out there, and they vary *wildly* in their effectiveness and the extent to which they are actually doing anything helpful. Charity



Steven,Atheists have their church-alternatives the...

2007-06-16T15:44:00.000-07:00

Steven,

Atheists have their church-alternatives they could give to as well, such as Infidels.org, which likes to remind readers that "We have full recognition as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational organization, making all donations to the Internet Infidels fully tax deductible."

So it appears the difference is one degree of kindness for others and selflessness.



'In 2006, atheists and agnostics donated just $200...

2007-06-16T14:25:00.000-07:00

'In 2006, atheists and agnostics donated just $200 while believers contributed $1,500. The amount is still two times higher among believers when subtracting church-based giving.'


Steven replied:
So 1100 of these 1500 dollars were donations to church.

Hi Steven,
Does it matter where the funds went to? Giving is giving. I don't think it even bothers to



Yes, Steven, that's about right. But, as Layman no...

2007-06-15T07:13:00.000-07:00

Yes, Steven, that's about right. But, as Layman noted earlier in his comment:

The pollsters were careful in most cases to note contributions or volunteering to non-church related charities. But many church related charities do charitable work unrelated--in a technical sense--to running the church, such as food banks, feeding the poor, counseling, helping other members down on their



'In 2006, atheists and agnostics donated just $200...

2007-06-14T22:33:00.000-07:00

'In 2006, atheists and agnostics donated just $200 while believers contributed $1,500. The amount is still two times higher among believers when subtracting church-based giving.'

So 1100 of these 1500 dollars were donations to church.



The ultimate irony would be an atheist or agnostic...

2007-06-14T10:04:00.000-07:00

The ultimate irony would be an atheist or agnostic using this research as a reason to give-volunteer more. Talk about borrowing moral capital!

Good point.
In debating atheists I've noticed this:
1. They'll claim that they are very familiar with Christianity because they were raised in a practicing Christian family.
2. They became disillusioned with Christianity because



Personally, I am naturally inclined to give almost...

2007-06-14T08:28:00.000-07:00

Personally, I am naturally inclined to give almost nothing, but when people say how much they gave to this or that, it encourages me to actually reach into my pocket. (Although, I must admit, when it comes to things like Hurricane Katrina or Darfur, I don't need any encouragement to give...). So I say, you Christians that usually don't speak out about your giving--do it. Be a witness to your



Surprisingly, Steven is partially right. There are...

2007-06-13T13:11:00.000-07:00

Surprisingly, Steven is partially right. There are certainly Christians out there who will take Matthew 6:3-4 as meaning that a Christian should not tell anyone or admit to anyone that they give to charity. While I think most people would read verses 3 and 4 in context with verse 2 as not requiring such a strict secrecy as Steven suggests, I am sure that this more strict view of the extent of the



I imagine the real gap is even bigger as most Chri...

2007-06-13T12:24:00.000-07:00

I imagine the real gap is even bigger as most Christians will be keeping quiet about their charitable works as Jesus ordered them to do in Matthew 6:3-5.



Anon,The funny thing is, I argued a similar point ...

2007-06-13T11:05:00.000-07:00

Anon,

The funny thing is, I argued a similar point on infidels a while back and one of them linked to an atheist charity group. They neglected, however, to read the fine print. Turns out, the atheist charity had been started for the express purpose of responding to Christian claims that atheists were not charitable. In any event, it was a simply a wanna be channel of atheist funds to



The ultimate irony would be an atheist or agnostic...

2007-06-13T08:00:00.000-07:00

The ultimate irony would be an atheist or agnostic using this research as a reason to give/volunteer more. Talk about borrowing moral capital!



It is actually worse than portrayed by these numbe...

2007-06-13T07:40:00.000-07:00

It is actually worse than portrayed by these numbers. The pollsters were careful in most cases to note contributions or volunteering to non-church related charities. But many church related charities do charitable work unrelated--in a technical sense--to running the church, such as food banks, feeding the poor, counseling, helping other members down on their luck, visiting the sick, etc. No