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Comments on: A Tennessee Abortion Bill, and Some Musings on the Framing



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Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:03:01 +0000

[...] Recent Comments kairi on Another Lost Tampon StoryNatalie on Instead Softcup as a Fertility…Rachel on Education of the Pregnant…Court ordered cesare… on What Do Obstetricians and Lawy…Ned on A Tennessee Abortion Bill, and… [...]



By: Ned

Tue, 06 Apr 2010 02:14:49 +0000

"Most anti-abortion activists oppose abortion for their own moral and religious reasons." Yeah, I find that most pro-abortion activists support abortion for their own moral and religious reasons. So? "Those studies fail to account for the fact that elements such as a history of sexually transmitted infection may be more common among women who have unintended pregnancies, and therefore may have an abortion." Who says?



By: Tiny

Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:37:47 +0000

Most anti-abortion activists oppose abortion for their own moral and religious reasons. Abortion foes repeatedly site research that suggests abortion can cause infection or injury which is sometimes undetectable at the time of the abortion which in turn increases a woman’s risk of pre-term and low birth weight delivery. Those studies fail to account for the fact that elements such as a history of sexually transmitted infection may be more common among women who have unintended pregnancies, and therefore may have an abortion.



By: Ned

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:25:43 +0000

I appreciate this post, Rachel, and it is kind of charming (unless it ventures into the insulting) to watch someone as smart as Aunt B, for example, working so hard to get into the mind of pro-lifers/traditionalists. And regarding the "musing out loud" aspect of it, it just occurred to me that such posts may be the best at fostering sincere dialogue about controversial subjects. The motivation of this legislation is to do what almost every American claims is worthwhile: decreasing the number of abortions, in this case, by helping empower women who might not choose to get an abortion if they were not being pressured/coerced. Some people commenting here might be more ambivalent on the rationale for such legislation, but can't most of us agree that one-out-of-five is a statistic that calls for reasonable measures to educate whether the motivation is to prevent wholesale "violations of a woman's autonomy" or to "protect innocent human life"?



By: nm

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 23:16:18 +0000

Parental consent is not the same as corecion Please explain how forcing a minor who wants an abortion not to have that abortion because her parents haven't consented is different from forcing her to have an abortion because her parents want her to. In either case, the parents are overruling what their minor child wants to do with her body.



By: Rachel

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 22:39:58 +0000

Again, the possibility of a pro-choice bias with Guttmacher has been explicitly and repeatedly noted, and it has been repeatedly and explicitly stated that nobody should be forced to have an abortion. Please note that repeatedly asking questions which have already been clearly addressed (in some cases multiple times) is not courteous or productive blog behavior and further comments are on moderation; this one is approved because it specifically responds to nm's point and I would like to leave it to her to restate her point if desired about the effects of parental consent, which I believe you have missed. I'm all for discussion, but am not going to restate the same thing 8 times.



By: TNProLifer

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:46:23 +0000

I'm absolutely in favor of parental consent. Parental consent is not the same as corecion or forcing a minor to have an abortion. Are you stating that it is okay for a Mother or Father to force a minor to have an abortion? It's okay to tell the minor that she cannot live in the house if she doesn't get an abortion? That does happen and even if it is 14% of the cases, in Tennessee there were 14,245 abortions which means there were 1,994 women/minors that felt they were coerced or forced to have an abortion. Isn't that number 1 too many? I'm not saying the Guttmacher Institute falsifies their results, often results can be swayed based on the question that is asked. For example, would you trust a Republican polster to give you an unbiased result on the issue of health care reform? Or would you trust a Democrat polster more?



By: nm

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:24:28 +0000

I was going to point out the issue that Ethel mentioned; I wonder whether the same people who want these signs also want signs up in every OB/GYN's office to remind women that it's illegal for anyone to force them to carry a fetus to term. And I wonder whether TNProLifer is in favor of parental notification before a minor has an abortion, being all worried and all about how parents can force their daughters into doing things those daughters don't really want to do. I further wonder whether TNProLifer can find a single instance of anyone showing that the Guttmacher Inst. has falsified their results.



By: Rachel

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:49:07 +0000

No, I think you'd have to be willfully misunderstanding the post above to come to that conclusion. You mentioned coercion by a partner at PP, and another commenter mentioned coercion by the father or a family member. Other than speculation about gender-related relationship dynamics in response to B's comment above, I'd like for you to point out where I ever say that when it does happen, it's only a problem of men and that female coercers are okay. What I've said is that women should be aware that they cannot be forced and that women should be able to choose abortion of their own free will. I don't who you think you're convincing by be being deliberately obtuse.



By: TNProLifer

Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:44:29 +0000

So, it's okay if a Mother or a Sister or a female friend forces a woman to have an abortion? But not okay if a man forces her to have one. Because only men force women to have abortions. My understanding of the proposed signage applies to any person that may be coercing a woman to have an abortion. I'm one that people should know their rights when contemplating serious decisions such as this. But I guess you can take down the Do Not Carry a Weapon In This Place signs on doors and No Smoking Allowed signs to, because people know the law and really don't need reminders.