Subscribe: mikeash.com pyblog/the-iphone-development-story.html comments
http://www.mikeash.com/commentsrss.py?page=pyblog/the-iphone-development-story.html
Added By: Feedage Forager Feedage Grade B rated
Language: English
Tags:
app store  app  apple  apps  developer  development  iphone development  iphone  make  mikeash  people  process  store  time 
Rate this Feed
Rate this feedRate this feedRate this feedRate this feedRate this feed
Rate this feed 1 starRate this feed 2 starRate this feed 3 starRate this feed 4 starRate this feed 5 star

Comments (0)

Feed Details and Statistics Feed Statistics
Preview: mikeash.com pyblog/the-iphone-development-story.html comments

mikeash.com pyblog/the-iphone-development-story.html comments



mikeash.com Recent Comments



Last Build Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 17:59:08 GMT

 



Borlat - 2016-07-18 09:16:33

Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:16:33 GMT

Far more better than Android ISO, there is continues improvement in developing apps for IOS. Compared to the simplicity of developing and distributing a Mac app, Apple's iPhone program is extremely convoluted and strange.

Borlat @ http://www.ppm-factory.com



Vinity - 2014-11-07 13:54:14

Fri, 07 Nov 2014 13:54:14 GMT

I'm interested in reading this article once more later on. It is a lot for me personally to absorb, nevertheless it's very interesting and I want to understand.

Regards,
tim @ http://www.vinitysoft.com/



Jimmy - 2014-02-06 19:04:44

Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:04:44 GMT

Do you wanna develop your iPhone Apps? come check out our website, http://www.taoteapps.com, we have a lot information to help making your mobile deployment a success.



Paul - 2013-02-28 14:48:57

Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:48:57 GMT

You forgot to mention that Apple pulls all your stuff out of the store once you don't renew your developer's contract.

I wrote an app and learned that iAd worked properly on my own network and not on Apples. So for the first week or so after release, at a time when apps are making the most income that they're going to make, my app was totally free.

I'm convinced that writing iphone apps for monetary reasons is a sucker's bet. I doubt that 95% of developers even earn back the money they pay for hardware, software, and fees. The only entity that benefits from your hard work is Apple. I don't know why Apple gets so many free passes... they're worse than Microsoft ever was.



I-phone application development India - 2012-11-19 21:25:27

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 21:25:27 GMT

The one downside for a company account is that you have to prove that your company actually exists. However, Apple will accept a partnership agreement as proof, so this just requires that you find a boilerplate partnership agreement on the net and that you both sign it, no registration or payment with local government required (at least if you're in the US).



Jannifer - 2012-09-20 11:43:19

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 11:43:19 GMT

In general either the iPod touch or the iPhone is fine to test on, unless you need to make use of some of the features that the iPhone has and that the iPod Touch hasn't, such as GPS, cellular data, microphone, camera, and in the latest iPhone 3GS, a compass. Otherwise you can use either....



Jon Russard - 2011-08-21 18:57:25

Sun, 21 Aug 2011 18:57:25 GMT

That's exactly why I recommend Nov8rix to create apps for both iPhone and Android!! Simply supply them with content, discuss what you want the background designs to look like and bam, it's done at low rates, competitive to others and you get more for your moola with them. You can do a self setup or get the full-service and both have unlimited changes. I found them through a TUAW review: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/06/13/click-and-drag-iphone-app-creation/

The only thing someone needs to do is supply the content they want in the app and complete the iOS developer account setup in a matter of a few seconds. Nov8rix takes care of the submissions.




GavinSpaceFace - 2011-05-09 09:35:10

Mon, 09 May 2011 09:35:10 GMT

Great Post, thanks for sharing your experience :)



Jomoos - 2011-04-16 07:27:28

Sat, 16 Apr 2011 07:27:28 GMT

free and open source software rocks!!!



Roses Mark - 2011-02-15 06:05:23

Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:05:23 GMT

Hey Author,

I work on different Application such as (iPhone ,iPad and android) but now i get chance to work on Window Mobile Application so that phone is similar to iphone or little bit different.



seema - 2011-01-19 06:27:45

Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:27:45 GMT

Hi,

I work on iPhone development. But I feel, besides all the technicalities that you have mentioned in your post is true and good, but the major thing, i feel, required to survive the tough market challenges in iPhone development requires innovation and creativity. And that alone can get you a trusted band of followers. Would like to know your views on this.




Gigacycle - 2010-12-06 13:01:28

Mon, 06 Dec 2010 13:01:28 GMT

we are small developer team. we want to develop an application for apple store. but we are in enrollment step. I want to know what is different between individual and company enrollment? how apple verify a company or persons? which one of license can help us to develop better?

thank you!



Essay - 2010-10-21 07:31:45

Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:31:45 GMT

As far as I'm concerned to submit the app through Cydia you don't need to make any steps. You just upload on their site. Cydia can be installed on the iPhone or iPod which is JailBroken.



dotslashquote - 2010-10-05 14:01:08

Tue, 05 Oct 2010 14:01:08 GMT

This is a wonderful post! Only wonder how long all these scary steps would take to get a small app into the store.

It would be really nice if someone can point to the steps for submitting the app through Cydia.

Thanks in advance.



mikeash - 2010-06-26 00:18:51

Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:18:51 GMT

If you're low on cash and high on time, I suggest looking into jailbreak development. If you end up with something you can sell, you can always switch to the official program then.

Or do Mac development....



Tom Cat - 2010-06-25 17:07:30

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 17:07:30 GMT

My story consists of only step 1, because $99/year is way off my league. I'm a high school student anyway, am I supposed to run to my mom and ask "Mom, I want to develop for the iPhone, can we sacrifice more than one week's worth of food and drink to do that?" (No, I'm not kidding.)

Even more brutal, I just found out that another friend of mine (in high school) got his parents to sign him up for the program so that he can play with the betas of iOS 4. He knows nothing about C, let alone Objective-C.

I love my life :|



codemeit - 2010-06-15 08:41:16

Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:41:16 GMT

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Wish your app selling well in app store.



Montana - 2010-05-04 17:55:16

Tue, 04 May 2010 17:55:16 GMT

What bugs me is that I'd have to pay $99/year if I wanted to run apps I develop on MY DEVICE!!!!



mikeash - 2010-04-25 15:49:19

Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:49:19 GMT

I recommend going for a company account. We started out with an individual account, but it's less flexible than a company account and costs the same, so there's no reason not to go for company. We converted our individual account, but it was a big pain. The one downside for a company account is that you have to prove that your company actually exists. However, Apple will accept a partnership agreement as proof, so this just requires that you find a boilerplate partnership agreement on the net and that you both sign it, no registration or payment with local government required (at least if you're in the US).

Even with a company account, only the primary account can do things like submit apps, so it's not the best, but I think it's still better.



vargo27rsv - 2010-04-25 06:41:26

Sun, 25 Apr 2010 06:41:26 GMT

hey man. you mentioned you and your partner in one of your steps. i am in the process of setting my account up and am wondering if my partner and i (yes that is two of us) could go with an individual or company account. can you please help us with making this decision? thx



mud - 2010-04-23 05:51:50

Fri, 23 Apr 2010 05:51:50 GMT

well that was very informative, i want to develop applicaition for iPhone, can you forward me to a good step by step tutorial.
thanks
mudz@ymail.com



Local Search Guy - 2010-04-11 06:13:23

Sun, 11 Apr 2010 06:13:23 GMT

@Tom Bodet at 2010-03-18 17:03:36

Did you follow your own advice and buy a boat load of apple shares back when they were low? You'd DEFINITELY be laughing all the way to the bank if you were to cash in today...



Stuart Hall - 2010-03-28 23:06:31

Sun, 28 Mar 2010 23:06:31 GMT

I can relate to this story a little too well :) We are iPhone developers, but luckily this year the approval times seem a lot better, more like 3-4 day initial reviews and 1-2 day re-reviews.

Good luck everyone



Glad I read this - 2010-03-21 07:14:56

Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:14:56 GMT

I'm glad a read this posting, I just tried to download the 2.8GB iphone SDK with XCode yesterday. It took 14 hours and crashed around 2.4GB when I eventually had to go to sleep.

I'm doing this for fun so I think I'll just develop for Android instead.



Tom Bodet - 2010-03-18 17:03:36

Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:03:36 GMT

Amazing story, wow, I mean with the sheer amount of money spent on PR, at apple and the reputation that apple stuff just works, wow, I am really surprised, But I know I should not be,

  It looks like red tape, I once told a friend to dump Microsoft and buy apple, of course they never listen,

   Back then I think like 1998, apple was low Microsoft was high, now it appears that they have reversed and then some,
so my advice to buy apple in 1998 turned out to be a great bit of advise. Which I liberally told all my friends, at least all who would listen that apple would someday eclipse Microsoft in dependability and stock price,

Needless to say I was laughed at, with serious derision and scorn,

I would just like to say, who's your daddy now, #$%$

Anyway, I really would love to see a better process and thank you for taking time to share your experience.

It really helps to hear the inside scoop.



iPhone Developers - 2009-10-20 06:59:25

Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:59:25 GMT

I have applied for the iphone Developer Program before 25- 30 days didn't get any reply from apple .. Now what next we can do



mikeash - 2009-10-06 17:29:24

Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:29:24 GMT

You'll probably be interested in my followup story that I posted recently:

http://www.mikeash.com/?page=pyblog/the-iphone-development-story-one-year-later.html

The short version: not worth it, the process stinks, I've given up.



Marc Sylvester - 2009-10-06 17:17:53

Tue, 06 Oct 2009 17:17:53 GMT

Mike, this was a GREAT post.
A terrific read.

I know you posted this last year, but its still very valid. I've just gone through the exact same thing myself (and am currently waiting to be accepted ... the first time.)

I see that this particular app is free ... but I would like to know if, after a year of your app being listed in the app store, if it was all worth it?

Have you made any money from advertisements or - perhaps word-of-mouth-visitors-to-your-site... or even programming jobs because of it?

Also, curious to know how many downloads you've had in a year.

Thanks again for the initial post Mike. Great read.

Marc



mikeash - 2009-09-24 03:58:51

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:58:51 GMT

The situation for getting apps onto a phone is a bit more complicated than this, so you have a few options.

For options officially supported by Apple, you have:
- The store. You know this.
- Development certificates. Each phone has to be registered with Apple, then a profile generated including the phone, then the application built with that profile and installed using Xcode.
- Ad hoc certificates. The same basic thing as development certificates, except that you actually get a profile/app pair that can be installed using iTunes.
- Enterprise development program. I don't know much about this one. According to Apple, it's "For companies with 500 or more employees who are creating proprietary in-house applications for iPhone and iPod touch."

That's it. If this company is smaller then your options pretty well suck. Everything requires a foolishly large amount of manual labor per phone unless you actually go through the store, which is stupid if it's supposed to be an internal application.

I should also note that development certificates (and probably ad hoc certificates) expire, typically after a few months, requiring rebuilding the app after that time. Yeah, it's insane.

And of course there's still one option not officially supported:
- Jailbreaking.

Once you jailbreak a phone you can put any software on it that you like.



Colin - 2009-09-24 02:02:15

Thu, 24 Sep 2009 02:02:15 GMT

Thanks for the story Mike, and all the follow ups - it certainly sounds like a nightmare!

You say: 'I don't think it will ever be possible to distribute apps without the app store'

I am a developer who was hired a while ago to build a (PC based) application for a client. That client now has provisioned their staff with iPhones, and have asked me if it's possible to port the app I built for them to that platform. I came across this blog researching developing for the iPhone, and your statement above worries me. I don't want to sell this app (intellectual property belongs to the client, not me) - but it doesn't sound like there is any way to get it onto their iPhones without going through the app store? Am I reading that right?

Sorry if this is a silly question, I'm very much a PC developer, and have never even seen an iPhone in real life yet!



mikeash - 2009-09-18 03:19:45

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:19:45 GMT

Yeah, it sure is nice having Apple sitting there preventing apps from getting on the store if they, say, crash on startup half the time when the phone is on EDGE. Oh wait, the official AIM client does that!

Yeah, real nice of them to keep crashy apps of the store, yep.

And if you think that my whole argument is built around the fact that Apple acts as a gatekeeper, you need some help with your reading comprehension.



Conrad - 2009-09-18 02:56:20

Fri, 18 Sep 2009 02:56:20 GMT

Stop whining. Seriously. Just cause Apple's not opening up their platform to all manner of buggy, beta and alpha releases any yahoo wants to release (like yours the first two times you sent it in, right?) doesn't mean their whole development platform and structure is terrible.



mikeash - 2009-08-31 01:51:51

Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:51:51 GMT

I guess I write in a more amusing fashion than I feel. Fact is that the entire experience was extremely frustrating, and I have now given up on iPhone development altogether because of it. If Apple fixes their junk someday I may come back, but until then I have no plans to do any further work on the platform.



Andy Baird - 2009-08-31 01:47:48

Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:47:48 GMT

Mike, I'm very grateful to you for posting your story... and to the others who chimed in with constructive comments. Heck, I'm even grateful to the "You're a whiner" and "I've got the million-dollar idea--guaranteed!" posters for providing comic relief. ;-)

Like many here, I've been through a series of hair-pulling episodes with iPhone development, and have the bald pate to prove it. I kept thinking "Does it have to be this hard... or am I just unusually dense?" It's at least somewhat reassuring to learn that I'm not alone.

Right now I'm stuck on step 13, caught in code signing limbo--not only unable to submit my app to Apple, but all of a sudden, mysteriously unable to even install a development version on my iPod touch, which was working fine until last night.

I'll probably give the App Store submission process one more try, but in the meantime I took a couple of hours today to build a web app version, so that if all else fails, I'll have that. (It was going to be a freebie anyway.)

As a user, I love the iPhone/iPod touch platform... but as a professional developer, I won't be doing any more work on this platform until the situation improves dramatically. For me, the aggravation simply isn't worth it. It's ironic that Apple excels at making life easy for end users... yet won't apply that expertise to developers.



Jake - 2009-08-30 23:55:00

Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:55:00 GMT

Jeez, I wish I found the whole thing as amusing as you now seem to be able to. I was once an extremely proficient Mac developer but am just jumping back in to develop some personal utilities. I am dumbfounded.

These complexities Apple has created are, simply, pointless - as you've well identified. And the chorus of other developers with similar problems is frightening!

Me, I've got all my certs and have followed all the steps. I give up.

Maybe I should have bought an Android phone...



mikeash - 2009-08-28 14:15:33

Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:15:33 GMT

I would delete this last comment as spam, but the %20 in the URL breaks it and is hilarious.

As for testing, I suggest you read through all of the comments posted before you post your own. This issue has been addressed extensively. Your post brings absolutely nothing new to the table.



iPhone Application Developer - 2009-08-28 06:48:33

Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:48:33 GMT

I suggest that the onus to test your app falls squarely on your shoulders, not that of Apple. The fact that you did not do sufficient testing is part of a problem with your process, not Apple's.

We are professional iPhone App development company. We have produce quality app for all over the world.



Jeremiah - 2009-08-22 05:08:55

Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:08:55 GMT

Wow love your story I imagine everyones mileage is different on the process. Amazing how the comment section is way longer than the article.



Aaron - 2009-07-29 21:53:31

Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:53:31 GMT

Thanks for this Mike, you have no idea how much easier this has made things for me. Myself being entirely alien to the Mac platform in general, it shed some necessary light on things I had no knowledge of, and I could actually get stuff running about an hour after I had gotten my certificate.



mikeash - 2009-07-10 00:00:31

Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:00:31 GMT

Well, it was a paid app at the time. Anyway, no, not worth it at all. I do not plan to develop any more iPhone applications.



Montezuma - 2009-07-09 16:24:01

Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:24:01 GMT

This is a great article - thanks

and all this for a 'free' app!
was it worth it?



Mert - 2009-07-02 17:08:16

Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:08:16 GMT

This has been great blog so far. Thanks to everyone.
I am also considering developing applications for iPhone. The process of getting accepted to App Store sounds a little bit scary. I am wondering how is it possible to get your application developed by a software company and then submit the code to App Store. Anyone have any experience with this?? What should I pay attention to if I follow this route?



lfdev - 2009-06-28 01:40:19

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:40:19 GMT

I suppose they wouldn't have been able to prevent tethering for as long as they did if apps were freely distributable. I think this is the type of control they want, but I wonder how much they gain from treating the development platform differently than mac development in this sense.



mikeash - 2009-06-28 01:06:16

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:06:16 GMT

I don't think it will ever be possible to distribute apps without the app store. I don't think that they're main concern is carriers, because otherwise why lock down the iPod Touch, and why refuse to carry things like pornography? As far as I can see it's about control, pure and simple. It's their platform, and they want to be able to regulate what third party applications are available on it.

I can understand the desire to do this. The idea of spending years developing this neat little pocket computer only to have people do all kinds of nasty things with it is disturbing. But ultimately you ought to let people do what they like. I doubt Apple ever will though....



lfdev - 2009-06-28 00:11:46

Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:11:46 GMT

True enough! Perhaps these hoops are intentional to deter an even greater flood of submissions of which apple must review for appstore inclusion. I wonder when it will be possible to distribute the apps without the appstore, as it is with mac apps. Is their concern truly that apps may in some way harm the carrier network, or sidestep carrier-lockin, or what?



mikeash - 2009-06-27 22:51:45

Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:51:45 GMT

Certainly the problems aren't insurmountable. The thing that really bothers me is that they're unnecessary.

I used to play around with custom code on a Lego Mindstorms. (Lego robotics platform if you aren't familiar.) Getting code onto that device was at least as hard as getting code onto an iPhone, maybe harder. And I had a lot of fun with that, and never ranted about how hard it was to get code onto the device.

Why? Because the difficulty of getting code on was an inherent part of the platform. I was working with a custom third-party kernel hacked up by people in their spare time, using an infrared link from a platform that Lego never dreamed of supporting, and a cobbled together toolchain that had to be coaxed just right.

Meanwhile Apple has all the parts it needs to make iPhone development simply a matter of build and go. And then from that base, they then put in a huge amount of work to make it difficult to install code. In other words, all the work I go through to make iPhone development function is because Apple put in a lot of extra work to make my life difficult. All they had to do was leave well enough alone on that part and everything would have been easy.



lfdev - 2009-06-27 14:52:51

Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:52:51 GMT

This entire thread was amusing! Months ago I toed into the process, installed a basic interface on my registered device, and decided that I would be better served by investing further time into my current platform. It really isn't as effortless as I hoped, but as evidenced by the plethora of neat, terrible, and pointless apps; if you have the time, and the will it's not rocket
science. I gather from a handful of threads that in contrast to other platforms, such as computing cards, the iPhone platform isn't too bad. Being new to Obj-C I was hoping to spend that weekend learning the syntax & inspecting API's, instead of tinkering with keychain, and Xcode info files. I'm sure you're used to using Interface Builder but the process of linking interface elements to code seemed unnecessarily convoluted as well. Oh well, I'll be back to check in again with the next big OS / dev-platform upgrade.



Rafa - 2009-06-24 01:36:14

Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:36:14 GMT

It is reassuring to see that al this mess of certificates & approvals also exist in consoles and other mobile devices. I was afraid it was some kind crazy thing Apple had come up with.

Still, I think Apple can do better and I hope they'll eventually let people publish their apps on their own in a more streamlined fashion (instead of what my nightmares tell me: Apple making the Mac application distribution in the same fashion as the iPhone's, with some kind of MacAppStore).

However, I developed for the Newton PDA many years ago and for that, besides buying the SDK, you only had to define a 4-letter signature as the creator of the apps. Apple would just register your proposed "signature" and, unless it was already taken, you were good to go.



mikeash - 2009-06-21 19:47:28

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:47:28 GMT

Certainly you're right, the review process as-is is better than paying a ton of money for it! The thing is, the iPhone development process is way better than a lot of other platforms, but I compare it to the Mac, where there is no review process, I can install whatever I want without anyone's approval, etc.

The FNDA is long gone (happened sometime in late 2008, probably not long after you read about it).

For tethering, it sounds like they're going to get on it soon, but if you don't mind doing a little hacking, an easy google search will get you easy directions for setting it up now (and no jailbreaking either).



phirewind - 2009-06-21 12:16:04

Sun, 21 Jun 2009 12:16:04 GMT

@mikeash

Thanks for the post, I'd been searching all over to find any indication as to whether or not the review steps incurred an additional cost, i.e. every review submission to Microsoft for Xbox Live Arcade apparently costs on the order of thousands, as they seem to do a fairly intense software review of each game. The cumbersome process doesn't surprise me, but at least it doesn't eat up funds in raw cash every time an app needs an update.

I noticed a comment posted in Oct. '08 about the possible lifting of the FNDA that would allow developers to more freely converse and help each other in the community. Has this happened yet? I'm a long-time PC developer, but have been researching X-Code and the iPhone 3Gs and getting close to committing to some *gasp* Mac hardware for the sole purpose of porting some of my works-in-progress to the iPhone, and am doing due diligence in making sure I know precisely what I'm getting into beforehand. Now I just have to hope that AT&T will support tethering soon, as that is a feature that I can't go without if I switch away from my old 8525.



Vivek Singh - 2009-06-11 10:24:45

Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:24:45 GMT

I think process is getting better..touch wood , I've submitted my app "iCommander" on 28th of May and it's got approved on 6th of June, I had catered for bitta contingency hence selected 13 th of June for release date.
I've 1 promo code left, your review will be much appreciated.
I wish a very good luck to everyone.
W39947TKYHAL




mikeash - 2009-06-09 23:23:29

Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:23:29 GMT

You can transform your account to a corporate account by asking Apple, just be prepared for it to take a while.

As for the docs, it's just like Cocoa programming. Apple provides good references and decent conceptual docs, but virtually no tutorials or in-depth explorations of a given topic. External resources are a must until you gain a lot of experience, and often even then.



andyd - 2009-06-09 22:40:53

Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:40:53 GMT

@mikeash

it was quite enjoyable reading all your comments. thanks for pwning newbs, 4eva



eric - 2009-06-09 21:51:19

Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:51:19 GMT

well written and great info mike - thanks.
i have been a professional developer on large systems for many years, am thinking of diving into iPhone dev more for the learning & fun then expecting to make any money. if i sign up as an individual dev, and by some miracle i end up with an app that is able to be sold, can the account type be changed to corp at that point? also, are the materials (e.g. api doc) provided by the Apple Dev program sufficient or do you need to supplement with lots of google searches, listserv perusal, etc?



mikeash - 2009-06-07 05:54:01

Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:54:01 GMT

OK guys, this is not a support forum. Please read over all relevant material available at http://developer.apple.com/iphone/ and, if your questions then remain unanswered, take all support-related questions to Apple's developer forums or another appropriate venue.

Further tech-support type questions (and answers) will be deleted without warning.



James - 2009-06-07 05:21:34

Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:21:34 GMT

Need some Help!!

Hi everyone. This post is very helpful. I had a team develop my first app. I have some questions which may help alot of others who hire developers to create their applications. here goes.

1. The hired team has their own provision file and code. I created a new provision file for my company. Do I have to code the program differently or do I just submit the folder with files created by the hired development team and my provision profile? I do not know how to code. The program worked when I dropped the developer company provision profile and folder with code into my itunes library.

2. provision profile - Do you create a separate provision profile for each application or do you keep only one provision profile for all applications. I ask this because the provision profile says the app name in it and if I use for a different program I create in the future I do not want to have the wrong program app name in it.

Thanks for ANY HELP!!!!!

-James



mikeash - 2009-06-07 03:07:34

Sun, 07 Jun 2009 03:07:34 GMT

Alex, since you obviously seem to have the capability to get what you need and find people who make up for your lack, I'll simply wish you good luck (and note that you're about two years too late to "foresee" the opportunities of the App Store).



Alex - 2009-06-07 02:04:36

Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:04:36 GMT

Well, the same was told to Atari on its begginings, but a appreciate your words of "go get down on earth".

I know just too few stuff about computers, its true.

Im more into knowing how to make deals within people, and how to learn what people wants and how the want it.

also helps my studies in psichology into achieving this.

I didnt know how to use properly a professional camera and today im running an entire tv, wich is increasing its profit at a steady pace by just creating programs that people like to see.

( and by the way, turning crazy all my technicians, because i spend all the morning meetings asking them if we can do this or that into ways that seem impossible, but i know ( and found out) that when you give a tech the opportunity to do something that looks like impossible, they eventually find a way to make it with what we've got here, that comes me to think sometimes that we have gone to the moon and back probably thanks to some tech that said "impossible? hah, you will see!").

What i mean to say with this is, Yes, youre right i have foreseen the opportunities that the appstore starts to be in terms of bussiness and cash making.

and yes, i have the only experience about games of being a gamer since kid. xD ( and i know that is not quite precisely what i need).

But i learn fast. Or i get around me people who knows what i lack. and form a team.

that is my experience that repeats over time since i was 8. getting into things in wich i know nothing than i want to know and be.

and i do it! I ran a store, then a disco, today a tv. with any experience before. but surrounding with people who really know what are they doing in that field, and learning from them.

maybe my talent is to make easy for me to create teams.


So tell me, what do you think that I should learn prior to get into this appstore quest?

thanks again for the interest shown in your response. its good to hear back stuff from someone with his feet planted on the ground.


( answering to your good advice, since a kid, looks that my area of expertise is getting my nose into unknow places... and get a success out of 'em!).



mikeash - 2009-06-06 12:03:18

Sat, 06 Jun 2009 12:03:18 GMT

Your ability to install things on real iPhones comes in two forms:

1) Development. You install a certificate and a provisioning profile and build with Xcode and it installs on the phone. This can be done on many phones, but you must use Xcode to install this way. I don't know what the limit is.

2) Ad hoc. You generate a provisioning profile and a special build of your app. The user then dumps these into iTunes, which loads it onto the user's device much like a purchased app.

#1 is part of the whole process outlined above, #2 is an extra bit of difficulty to get right on top of all the rest, but the user doesn't need to use or even have Xcode.



Paul - 2009-06-06 10:15:33

Sat, 06 Jun 2009 10:15:33 GMT

Mike,

A couple questions:

When you pay your $99 you only have the ability to run your app on one iphone? If I know someone else who has an iphone and has paid the $99, can I test my app on his iphone and can he test his app my iphone?

I haven't seen anyone mention Iphone development books. Obviously, this won't take the place of being able to talk to other developers, but are there any books out that that people have found especially helpful?



mikeash - 2009-06-06 05:32:45

Sat, 06 Jun 2009 05:32:45 GMT

Alex, I have to ask, why do you think that you can get into the app store business like this?

From what you say it sounds like you have absolutely no relevant experience. And while I realize you would be hiring the programmers, the manager of a programming team still has to know something about the business he's in. It's as if you suddenly decided to go get into the offshore oil drilling business, or start an airline. You need relevant expertise in the field, and you don't have it. You can get it, of course, but the first step in this process would then be to go learn about computers.

It sounds to me like you've caught the gold rush mentality of iPhone development. I can't blame you for that, as it's pretty common, but it seems to have blinded you to the fact that you need knowledge of the business in order to be successful in it. My recommendation: forget about iPhone work and do something that's within your area of expertise.



Alex - 2009-06-06 02:46:33

Sat, 06 Jun 2009 02:46:33 GMT

Hi Mikehash!


I work as a tv director, so im used to think and create scripts and ideas wich turn into fun for people, money for the channel.

I am thinking to get into the appstore bussiness, hiring a(or some) programmers,artist and well... a team to develop for the iphone.

So i am scouting the web looking for info about wich tools i have to get ( or buy) and so on.

I found your post, that catched my interest ( as long as scared me a lot!).

And i question to you... Is that hard develop a game for iphone??

Does it take that complex and time waiting-wasting process??

well, having an app created and tested, and get it on sell one month after, is not an extreme big deal to what i calculate, but it is a considerable amount of time.

I am in Spain,so being from out of the US gets the things worse than what you explain??

Hey, thanks for the post and the answer!

^_^



Nop - 2009-06-05 07:16:06

Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:16:06 GMT

Yeah, submitted on June 1st... so I guess I have a long ways to go. I'm trying to figure out what the average wait time is. Some people have told stories of getting approved after two days. Other people talk about a week, or two weeks, or three weeks. I agree that annoying yellow bullet with "In Review" and no other information is frustrating. In my case, my app could be seen as controversial because it is religious in nature. I'm wondering if someone with the wrong religious persuasion is going to be the one reviewing my app and I'll get the "does not pass the objectionable material test" after waiting for weeks. ARGH!




Jeff - 2009-06-05 05:19:04

Fri, 05 Jun 2009 05:19:04 GMT

I remember reading this post a couple months ago and saying: "screw iPhone development". But as a long time Mac user I finally took the plunge and paid my $99 dev. fee. Let me tell you all , it's exactly as Mike describes -- especially key signing -- a huge pain in the arse. Sign, crash. Key disappears. Delete key. Re-provision. It's as difficult as the coding itself.

So I'm on day 9 waiting tensely, expectantly after having submitted my app to Apple and either have them declare me an iPhone developer, or a simply declare "go back to the end of the line and wait another 2 weeks!"

I think with 0S 3.0 around the corner the team is busy re-testing all 40,000 apps to see if they'll run in that environment. I envision maybe 4 weeks wait? Anyone submit recently and still waiting?



iPhone App Developers - 2009-06-05 02:35:42

Fri, 05 Jun 2009 02:35:42 GMT

Rumour of an announcement when the OS3.0 drops on a few tweaks to the app to store process. Lets wait & see...



Steve Jobs - 2009-06-03 13:11:34

Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:11:34 GMT

I hope the process has gotten better. I'm a few weeks away from submitting my app to Apple.



Vivek Singh - 2009-05-21 05:04:01

Thu, 21 May 2009 05:04:01 GMT

Thank God I've got a response from ITunes banking team see below.
quiet interesting unlike others I'm not given any sort of change in bank details form to fill.

FYI
  
Hello,

Your request to change your account holder name has been received. Please note that these changes will not be reflected in your iTunes Connect account. We will make the changes in our accounting system. Please allow 21 days from date of receipt for these changes to take effect.

Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.




Vivek Singh - 2009-05-20 07:37:51

Wed, 20 May 2009 07:37:51 GMT

Well I need to change my bank account details. I sent 2 emails to itsbanking@apple.com on 15th of May 2009 and 1 via a contact tool in itunes. So far i've'nt heard anything from them hopefully I will hear any time sooner.
God this is frustating...



Andrew Yaroshevsky - 2009-05-19 19:58:56

Tue, 19 May 2009 19:58:56 GMT

After all these being heard I open Apple developer connection page (http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/) and what I do see first is huge:
"iPhone developer program
The fastest path from code to customer."

:) That made me smiling



mikeash - 2009-05-19 05:21:02

Tue, 19 May 2009 05:21:02 GMT

In case others need it, ADC is the place to call and you can find their phone numbers here:

http://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.html



John from Beyond - 2009-05-19 05:15:39

Tue, 19 May 2009 05:15:39 GMT

My story is similar. I'm amazed at how many developers actually make it through the process, and I wonder how many throw up their hands in despair and simply give up.

I'm at one week and counting for approval of a very simple calculator type app, two weeks and counting for approval of the contract/banking info...

Oh, I can add another horror story. I had paid my $99 almost 8 months ago and never went into iTunes Connect to set up the banking stuff. When I first tried, the password which worked fine for the main iPhone developer section wouldn't give me access to the other section (and yes, it is supposed to). Since there is no phone number anywhere on the web site, I tried email. After 4 weeks, I didn't even get a reply, and I kept sending new emails once a week. finally I found a phone number on google and called them up. After waiting on hold for 20 minutes, they fixed the problem in about 30 seconds.

The process is seriously broken and needs help.



WhatToDo - 2009-05-09 03:19:11

Sat, 09 May 2009 03:19:11 GMT

I think I may persist on, but it does seem that every time I turn there is another mountain to climb.

I am very new to all the tools involved (Obj-C, xcode etc) and it seems the process is very distracting from actually learning what is necessary to develop.

I originally thought my initial investment would be some time and $99. But it seems that it will be allot of time, waiting (which I hate) and since I only have a PPC PowerBook some expensive hardware.

It would be cool to see how you make out with your second app. Good Luck!



mikeash - 2009-05-09 02:54:31

Sat, 09 May 2009 02:54:31 GMT

My first app was definitely not worth it. Second app just came out yesterday and remains to be seen.

Overall, I think people's perceptions are deeply skewed by the fact that the news stories and blog posts are all about a few enormously successful people, and almost never about the vast majority of people who are doing at best average. For every Flight Control there are a hundred apps that are lucky to pay back the developer's $99 entry fee.

As for posts not becoming more positive about the process, the process simply hasn't improved. It was the same bunch of stupid stuff for my most recent app as for my first one. Worse, actually, because Apple never bothered to send an e-mail to say that the recent one was accepted, and we had to discover this fact on our own.



WhatToDo - 2009-05-09 00:45:10

Sat, 09 May 2009 00:45:10 GMT

Regarding the post by Profit?

Would those of you who have successfully made it through the process and have paid apps actually in the App Store say that it was worth it?

What level of monetary success would you say you have had? I realize that success with something like this will be determined by many factors, just looking for an unofficial average, from the "average Joe", casual conversation type of response.

BTW, I was kind of shocked to see this thread become so current without the posts becoming more positive about the process.

Thanks



iphone development - 2009-04-29 11:46:30

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 11:46:30 GMT

this is so freakin true. developing is not a walk in the park. we have been doing this for awhile and hate the wait. when you order a new macbook you have email updates, website telling you whats going on, ups to track. why cant they do taht for iphone apps? would love an updated webpage telling me what stage my app is in. even if its bullcrap would help all of us.



Niko - 2009-04-29 07:21:19

Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:21:19 GMT

does anybody know if iphone app development companies can help you to put the app on your own itunes account ? or the guys at the apple store ? i am learning objective-c and iphone sdk. Its making my head spin.. So to all of you that are making apps already : I have nothing but the utter respect.. nikola at andelic gmail.com



mikeash - 2009-04-25 10:07:33

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:07:33 GMT

That doesn't really make sense. If there were more submissions than Apple could handle then the waiting time would continually increase. If Apple could handle many more submissions than are actually occurring, the waiting time would only be as long as the actual review process takes. (And we have fairly direct evidence from developers of applications that phone home that the review process is only about 20 minutes long.) If Apple's capacity matched the volume of submission, the waiting time would move randomly up and down in response to natural random ebb and flow.

Fact is that none of these are true. The wait time has been pretty consistently about a week since the beginning. Nobody really knows why, because this does not fit any of the three possibilities above.



create - 2009-04-25 09:44:42

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 09:44:42 GMT

I would like to know how many applications are submitted for review each week. If there are hundreds then a week of waiting is not bad at all!



mikeash - 2009-04-19 10:54:35

Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:54:35 GMT

The difference is, anybody can come up with a good idea. Transforming that idea into a working application takes an enormous amount of skill and effort.



J. Owens - 2009-04-19 10:23:45

Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:23:45 GMT

TO: T. Worrall / mikeash

Ever thought about it like this - I don't care how good a programmer you are bustin' your ass making a little game or ball bounce around. If it is not a good idea or concept that you are putting your time and hard work into, you are not gonna get anything back out of it and nobody will buy it - good luck.

I have found people to program for me, and I will put my idea out there. Go ahead and complain about people like me with "Ideas" and just keep trying to find your contracted fixed price jobs instead of having some faith and maybe taking one second to listen to someone.

all these apps keep going into the same few categories - Ours will create a whole new category... Have fun!



 



Morris - 2009-04-17 00:14:42

Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:14:42 GMT

WoW!

I'm gearing up to become a iphone developer and this sounds discouraging. I hope by the time I'm ready to submit my app some streamlining has occurred.



ringsoft - 2009-04-15 22:18:06

Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:18:06 GMT

Your lucky. We signed up, and have been waiting in step 3 for over a month - that's right, Apple with all their Billions of $ has taken more than 4 weeks and still has not 'verified our identity'



mikeash - 2009-04-10 00:13:09

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:13:09 GMT

As far as I know not a single thing has changed. Apple is still uncommunicative and slow. Certainly the software side of things is no easier. After losing the ability to load new builds onto my iPod on several occasions, I finally jailbroke the thing just so that I could continue working with it. At this point I'm just about ready to give up the platform.



ronald'or - 2009-04-09 23:16:38

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:16:38 GMT

I'm curious as well about 'the tax exemptions'. but in my case for europe, the Netherlands.
And can someone tell me about the benefits from selling an app?
Is it worth all the hassle?
This string started in 2008, now we are in april 2009.
Something has changed in communication with Apple?



mikeash - 2009-03-22 03:02:43

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 03:02:43 GMT

I'm curious, what's the deal with tax exemptions? I thought the whole point of this App Store business was that Apple handles all the legal and tax crap for you.



max cameron - 2009-03-22 02:36:35

Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:36:35 GMT

sorry to hear you had such a difficult time. We didn't have nearly as many problems as you did, we found the whole process simple and straightforward. The only tricky part was figuring out tax exemptions for countries like Japan.

Best of luck with your future apps,

Max



John - 2009-03-10 13:49:28

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:49:28 GMT

Keep the horror stories coming. Would want to breed competition.

In all seriousness I appreciate this site. As someone just looking to transition from windows development, I'll refer to this page while trying not to pull my remaining hair out.



Obi - 2009-03-10 00:53:58

Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:53:58 GMT

Im a .Net developer looking unashamedly to get onto the IPhone apps gold rush. Just bought a new Iphone and a mac mini. Applied to the developer program. Got accepted almost immediately. Confirmation email less than a day. Looking forward to writing a killer fun app.
Show me the money!



mikeash - 2009-03-03 07:27:44

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:27:44 GMT

End User: Nobody is forcing you to buy apps the day they're released.

The other guy whose post I just deleted: My blog is not a job board, please take it to a more appropriate forum.



End User - 2009-03-03 05:07:00

Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:07:00 GMT

"spending a month in limbo for a single bug is a very poor tradeoff."

I wish more developers had to go through this hoop before releasing a product to ANY market. :P



Joh - 2009-02-22 21:07:17

Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:07:17 GMT

No wonder nobody has tried to fix the poor sms functionality.
Is it too much to ask to have the ability to forward a sms reply by tapping the bubble or delete just a single sms rather than the whole converstation by swiping left to right and tap delete? It is apparently too much to ask for copy and paste as well as pre-setup lists of common sms replies.
Don't one of you with a bit of spare time want to solve this since it doesn't look like Apple care.



Shridhar - 2009-02-18 02:31:13

Wed, 18 Feb 2009 02:31:13 GMT

Here is My story Guys


I have applied for the iphone Developer Program before 25- 30 days didn't get any reply from apple .. I am still in Step 3 The wait condition if I ask about this they are telling its in process (Billing department) what is the hell this?



Miguel Sanchez - 2009-02-11 12:03:59

Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:03:59 GMT

As someone with an idea who "just needed a coder" I must agree with what you guys are saying about how most people either don't know exactly what they want nor do they really even want to spend the time to create it. These aspiring app developers are attracted to the Trism and iShoot stories that are written about every so often.

In my case I was actually very determined to execute on my vision, and so I began teaching myself the SDK while also creating the most detailed specs possible. I decided to outsource development abroad but, as the team I am working with will tell you, I knew exactly what I was looking for and had spent the time to understand just what was involved in creating it.

If you have an idea but can't be bothered to really think through it then move on, because the reality is that you will not find that special developer that will execute your idea and also hash out the specifics to make it work. As Mike said, there is a reason that guys who can execute and translate an idea into a product are not looking for people with little more than an idea. Odds are you will end up with a developer who is either mediocre or ripping you off if you are not willing to pay for contract work.

I have been keeping track of my experience and lessons learned in my development process and you can check it out here http://www.icombatgame.com



mikeash - 2009-02-10 01:06:05

Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:06:05 GMT

I hope you'll forgive me for saying that having developers flood the store with hordes of tiny cheap applications doesn't excite me, and I don't view the fact that Apple's policies encourage it as a good thing.



reandevou - 2009-02-09 22:35:50

Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:35:50 GMT

We are on app number 30 for us as a company and our clients. All I can say is we just keep churning out applications and let apple do all the heavy lifting... At any given time we have 7-10 applications in the queue for apple to approve or reject, we no longer wait for the big bad Apple to catch up !!!



mikeash - 2009-02-08 10:41:39

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:41:39 GMT

It's interesting the extent to which the iPhone gold rush has produced people who have an idea and "just need a coder".

As they say, million dollar ideas are a dime a dozen. It's the implementation that counts. You'll notice that there are no programmers out there advertising that they have a lot of skill and programming knowledge and would like to do profit sharing with someone who has a great idea. This should tell you something.



T. Worrall - 2009-02-08 07:01:41

Sun, 08 Feb 2009 07:01:41 GMT

J. Owens: I'm not meaning to sound harsh, but how much work would you propose to put into the partnership you're suggesting? If the answer is "Just the idea, some design suggestions, and testing" (or even worse, just the idea and nothing more) then I would doubt you'll find a profit share scheme.

Ideas are not worth very much. I tend to respond to a good idea by buying that person a beer. In making an app, the coding, graphics, UI design etc are the bits that take ages.

My first app is awaiting review in the app store now. The idea was the easy bit: it was the next fortnight of late nights staring at xcode, stubbornly optimising drawing code so it wasn't slow as shit... that's where the hard work lies.

Forgive me if you were intending some more equal partnership. I've just seen so many people say "I've got an idea -- if you code it, we can split the profit 50-50".



Laurie Ashton - 2009-02-05 22:25:40

Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:25:40 GMT

Quick question for y'all.

I'm sure you can understand how confusing/convoluted the Apple Developer's site and its information is. Besides the $99 fee and 30% of sales, are there any other fees involved in the process of selling an app through the Apple iStore?



iPhone Application Developer - 2009-01-31 07:18:08

Sat, 31 Jan 2009 07:18:08 GMT

Hi J. Owens. You might want to contact us at info@dreamworldsol.com. We specialize in iPhone development. We've developed a number of iPhone apps and games so far, and most of them are already on the app store.

Sam
http://www.dreamworldsol.com



Robert - 2009-01-29 05:53:12

Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:53:12 GMT

Mikeash you are such a whiner. Apple provides you an opportunity to make thousands if not millions of US dollars and all you can do is complain complain complain like a little spoiled brat, sheesh! By your own admission you did not even test the damn thing (cannot call you and your partner playing with the app - testing!). You submitted a bugged-up app not once but twice for Apple to figure them out for you. How many other mistakes did you make that you now blame on Apple? Grow up already! Scott, you're an ignorant something or other... There are quite a few people trying to build FREE iPhone apps - like myself. Requires the same crap, frustration, hoops, and $99 out of my wallet for a FREE app maybe to get onto the AppStore. And you don't get it at all do you? The iPhone simulator is crap. To really test, you need an iPhone or people with iPhones to act as betatesters. Oh, but you need signing code to even do that. And that means you need to pay $99 and such to get enrolled in the IDP BEFORE you can even test. At least that's the best I can make of the hundreds of web pages and PDF documents. If anything, Apple makes things as concise and clear procedurally as mud at night. As for all of the comparisons to XBOX and such, remember that the computer/console gaming industry is a MULTI-HUNDRED BILLION dollar a year industry. No comparison at all. :) Compare Ap[...]