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Preview: Banjo Hangout - Playing Advice: Bluegrass (Scruggs) Styles Forum Feed

Banjo Hangout - Playing Advice: Bluegrass (Scruggs) Styles Forum Feed

Banjo Hangout - Playing Advice: Bluegrass (Scruggs) Styles Forum Feed

Published: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:23:00 CST

Last Build Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:23:00 CST


Murphy method advanced camp

Mon, 23 Apr 2018 16:23:43 CST

Just got back from the first ever Murphy Henry advanced camp. Got to say, it was a blast, I was amazed at the talent not only from the teachers, but students also, there was never a dull moment. Casey Henry and Tom Adams was great teachers. We had entertainment, lessons and hands on, and also jams at night, and got to say Friday night was a blast picking with Geoff Stellin to 2 in the morning, got to say cant wait till next year.

Yates oval 8 finger pics

Sun, 22 Apr 2018 13:54:19 CST

Just wondered if anyone uses these or has tried them and how they match up against other pics?

Plectrum Like a 5 String, Open G ?

Sun, 22 Apr 2018 07:21:49 CST

Anybody out there play a plectrum like a 5-string ? Bluegrass or clawhammer ? I've often wondered about this and don't remember ever hearing anything about it.

Playing in Am - Beginner advice

Sun, 22 Apr 2018 05:23:50 CST

Hey folks!

I'm completely new to the banjo, just bought a 70ies japanese DIA banjo. Also, I'm from Switzerland and my english is not perfect, so I apologize already for sometimes being unclear.

I play the guitar for over 10 years and also have some fingerpiking styles already in my repetoire, so I hope getting to good starting point on the banjo shouldn't take me too long! :-) What indeed is completely new to me is playing in open tunings and all the ways the get around playing in different keys. So, I'm pretty sure for some of you it should be easy to help me with my first question: I'd like to play the song "the boy who wouldn't hoe corn". My girlfriend loves this song, especially in the version from the movie "The broken circle". She want's to sing along with me and the as originally in the movie played key is A minor, wich also fits her voice. So, I don't know how I can easily go to a tuning that fits. My approach was: If my banjo is in an open G tuning and I want to play in A minor, I need to transpose to C major, what means to put on a capo on the 5th fret, right? But I thnk that doesn't sound very nice. In the video of the song, the banjo player plays it with a capo on the 2nd fret. but I'm pretty sure that I need to change the tuning then. Do you have any advice for me how to get there? Also, is there any online help for chord charts for plying in different tunings?

So excited to learn the banjo already - hope you can help me!

best regards,

Deering Americana for Scruggs Style?

Sat, 21 Apr 2018 17:25:53 CST

I was curious if anyone has used an Americana for Scruggs style. I like the sound and this would be a luxury as I have two resonator banjos. I am thinking about an open back for a quieter sound and to travel with but I won't be using it for clawhammer. Thoughts? (This question is specifically about the Americana rather than open backs in general).

"Winston style" E-Book by Happy Banjo Dude opinions

Fri, 20 Apr 2018 07:08:20 CST

I'm a beginner banjo player and I've been considering buying his book.
Is it worth the money or can I get something better for the same money?

Songs every band member should know (Standards?)

Thu, 19 Apr 2018 11:30:44 CST

What songs should most band members be familiar with in case someone requests a song that isn't on your playlist? I'm not talking about anything super difficult either...Stuff with familiar melodies. I mean songs most people want to hear. Also, I just want to add a few songs to the repertoire and am looking for something I've overlooked. I don't want to be "that guy" when the pretty girl wants to hear {insert song here}. Thanks

*Tunes would be appreciated as well

Thumb pick question

Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:47:19 CST

Hello everybody. You have all been so helpful before, I thought I'd throw out another question.
So, when I began learning 3 finger banjo I was using a pro-pik Medium...I really like it and it feels great on my thumb. Recently I bought a few other picks, clown barf, National, Dunlop, GG...A couple of them feel pretty good, but I need a large thumbpick if it is plastic. And being a large thumbpick, it seems that the "blade" part is longer than the one I'm used to and I am having a hard time adjusting to it.
Is playing with a Medium Propik with a shorter blade, as opposed to a more standard classic pick going to hamper me later down the road when I get faster and more experienced?
Thanks for any feedback. :)

Great post from Russ Carson at the opry and great pictures of both hands

Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:55:02 CST

Don't know if this will fly under the radar: but a great study on hands and picks. just a great view of it. and the music is fantastic.


D tuners- different tunings

Sat, 14 Apr 2018 23:37:39 CST


Very simple question that I am struggling with (tried google but got varying answers).

I have d tuners - I have the g string set to f# and the b string to a- do I need to capo the 5 the string to a to make it d tuning?

Also, I have a second d tuner on the low d string- which I have tuned to c ( as recommended on this site) -what tuning would this be?

Thanks in advance

Jason C

Unknown Picking Pattern

Sat, 14 Apr 2018 16:43:10 CST

Hayde Bluegrass Orchestra do a version of Wayfaring Stranger,
Could someone please identify the banjo player's picking pattern for me?

D tuners - I have a g tuner and 2 b tuners

Sat, 14 Apr 2018 10:44:40 CST


I have 3 d tuners- 1 for the g string and two for the b string- is there any suggestions for having 2 b tuners (can I place it somewhere else?)


Jason C

Kristen Scott Benson's "Trying Times"

Fri, 13 Apr 2018 20:28:52 CST

Does anyone know the tune "Trying Times" by Kristen Scott Benson?? Off her Second Season cd.  It sounds like the middle main section of the tune is tuned to a standard G tuning, but the intro and outro both sound retuned down a little.  Can anybody help me with this?

Next Up for Progressive Bluegrass..."Four Finger Banjo"

Fri, 13 Apr 2018 18:31:01 CST

Just released cd, "Four Finger Banjo" by Greg Liszt:

"Bluegrass Stomp"

"FKA Yellow Barber"

Needless to say, the whole album is a tour de force of talent and following where the bluegrass foundation (and banjo) can lead...

Well worth listening to the whole album.  





moon bridges

Fri, 13 Apr 2018 15:42:35 CST

what are the opinions out there about moon bridges as compared to straight? i mean for bluegrass banjos.

what to do when your band don't *feel the time*

Fri, 13 Apr 2018 04:17:11 CST

That's the other side of the medal..

You work hard daily with metronome to develop a solid of good sense of timing then when you finally start to hear internally *where* your notes should be you may discover that:

1. You hear your band mates "playing on time" but with different accent or feel and do not know who to stay with
2. You find out yourself throwing 8-notes pattern hoping those will fall off into the right place
3. You need to avoid making strange faces to the audience
4. You find your rolls sound more like an old type writing machine specially on slow song
5. Your bandmates may tell you were back or forward against the time as soon as they hear a bit of *bounce* or *straight* picking coming into depending on the song

This is something I am experiencing a lot on live set when of course the pressure is a bit higher and playing into P.A. can make everybody hear and sound different that during rehearsals.

To be honest I admit that I am not free of any mistakes while performing live but I am listening daily to a lot of bluegrass music that now I had that internal feeling but need to find a way to develop this with my bandmates.

Really frustrating!

ideal thumpick for my small thumb?

Fri, 13 Apr 2018 04:00:39 CST

I got small hands and still struggling to find a decent thumbpick that can perfectly surround my thumb.

The only solution I found was to paste a little stripe of leather on the inside of the thumbpick so the it makes some kind of grip on the thumb.
This was done on my Dunlop that I liked for the small blade but after moving to Nationals I founded the Dunlop too unstable.

Now I moved to Nationals M size they have a more wide area that surround the thumb but as cons they have a more wide blade.
On Nationals I cover my thumb with a little stripe of cotton and put the thumbpick on.
So the sweat is being absorbed

I tried a Dunlop Zookie long time ago (they have angled small blade) and I found them really comfortable.

Despite which thumppick I use the main issue is that they tends to fall off when I am playing live due to sweat or playing with hard touch in the attempt to hear my self a bit more.

Any suggestion to anchor stably a thumbpick to the thumb?

Ziplock, soldering, bolts etc.. let's to some brainstorm! (image)

Great video of left and and great music

Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:39:47 CST


Russ Carson Jamming with Michael Cleveland.

Playing with D tuners..

Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:16:09 CST

Hi, I have just ordered some d tuners- can I use these to play in different keys?

Thanks in advance

Jason C

Dueling Banjos

Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:42:19 CST

I need some input regarding a Tab and how to play it.

I have an open note on the 1st fret on the first string. Then a slide on the 2nd fret to the 4th fret on string 3.
The open note is above the 2nd String Second Fret.

This is a easy slide, but I want to incorporate the first open note so it also plays when I start to do the slide.

I would appreciate some input

Tune with picks?

Sun, 8 Apr 2018 09:58:38 CST

Alright, this might be the most newbie question of all time, but when I was recently tuning my new banjo I noticed that if I tuned with the picks on, the strings reached tune about a half note (or tone) off than they did if I tuned without picks.

So... because I am so green in all things music (one talent I currently do not have) should I tune with picks or without?

I don't have an "ear" for the sounds yet. I use an electric tuner clipped to the neck and it sounds fine to me, but I want it to be right. I figure if I am starting I may as well start with good habits.

a rather special collaboration

Sat, 7 Apr 2018 15:37:03 CST

Hello all,

I'm normally in BHO's jazz section, but you guys really shouldn't miss out on this

and this:


Veerstryngh Thynner

What was the first J.D Crowe song you learned?

Sat, 7 Apr 2018 11:33:07 CST

I have been picking for a little while now, I have the beginner standards down pretty well. Cripple Creek, Liza Jane, Clinch mountain backstep and , foggy mountain breakdown (only about 25% as fast as the recording but it's getting there). Im working on I'll fly away now but, I'm itching to learn some J.D Crowe. Would you go with Old Home Place or Big Spike Hammer? I know those are not written by J.d but those are the version I'm most familiar with.

Dear Old Dixie

Sat, 7 Apr 2018 09:06:10 CST

In Mr. Scruggs' book, the song Dear Old Dixie, the section going into the ending, the tab shows to fret the 5th string at the 7th fret I believe using the thumb, try as I might, I can not fret the 5th string with my thumb, very frustrating. Can some explain to me an alternate fingering to do this? Thanks!

Help figuring out these backup licks

Sat, 7 Apr 2018 08:09:29 CST

Hi all,
I was listening to this great song by Longview and I noticed this sweet backup lick that the banjo player did after the "in the mood" roll. It goes from 1:30 to 1:33,

I can't figure out exactly how to play it. There sounds like a single string bit on the first string, I've heard JD Crowe do it as well.

Also, there is another nice lick that starts right at 1:34,after the 5-8 slide lick on the 2nd string.

Any help would be appreciated figuring out how to play these, especially with the right hand fingering. I bet that is tricky for the first lick.

Need help! String buzzing when playing :/

Sat, 7 Apr 2018 07:32:54 CST

Hi everyone,

I've been playing for about 5-6 years now and recently I have developed a weird habit of anticipating plucking the next string which leads to my pick being close to the string and causing a chirp before plucking the string.

Example: Shuckin' the Corn on the 2-3 slide T-I-T-M roll.. I anticipate needing to pluck the second string after the slide and my index finger unconsciously gets too close to the second string before plucking and there is an audible "chirp" or buzz in the middle of the roll.

Does anyone have any tips or things I can practice to help mitigate this? It is super frustrating and I feel like I have taken a step backwards. I plan on slowing things down in my practicing until it goes away, but thought I'd ask the "Banjo Brain Trust" for tips.



Old Bluegrass Albums

Fri, 6 Apr 2018 17:23:22 CST

This is a great place to find some old bluegrass albums:

Extended Banjo Retreat Geoff Hohwald Beginner to advanced beginner.

Fri, 6 Apr 2018 15:21:41 CST

Just wanted to announce that we will be doing a 4 student 2 instructor Extended Retreat Session from Thursday May 17 to May 21st in Dahlonega, Ga 70 miles North of Atlanta. Here is the info from the site. You can contact me through the Hangout. Thank you, Geoff A Raw Beginner to advanced/ beginner banjo camp with a low student to teacher ratio. 2 teachers for 4 or 5 students 3 teachers for 6 or 7 students. Guitar players who wish to learn to play with others are also welcome. There will be a combination of 1 on 1, 1 on 2 and jamming in small groups to practice what is taught. The low student to teacher ration lets the instructors give the students lots of monitored practice and 1 on 1 attention. The students not only understand what to do but have time to practice each technique or song taught which increases retention rate by up to 500%.. This sets the stage for major changes and progress to occur after camp as they apply the playing and practice strategies that are taught. What is covered and the depth depends on the individual student. There will be handouts to help the student remember and reinforce this information. We feel that it is better to thoroughly understand a few important points and be able to implement these as opposed to glossing over a lot of information. Banjo Camp Subjects: • Correct right and left hand technique • How to practice to produce optimum results in your playing. • How to relax. • How to set up your practice area so that everything you need is easily accessible. • How to use a metronome to increase speed and accuracy. • When not to use a metronome. • How to count using a metronome. • Understanding basic Bluegrass Rhythm. • Playing chords anywhere on the neck and how to move from one chord to another. • Using Chord Clusters to play more efficiently. • How to play minor and 7th chords if you know the major chord. • What to do in a Jam environment and how to jam. • Other subjects related to student need and desire. *Before each session we will send out a list of 10 songs that will be covered. Cost of Extended Music Camp Instruction High teacher to student ration of no more than 5 students with 2 instructors or 7 students for 3 instructors. $550 Lodging Option 1 Stay at the camp.There are 2 private rooms with private bath available on a first come first serve basis. If you wish to stay Wednesday night there is no extra charge. $300 for entire stay Option 2 Local Hotels Dahlonega is a tourist town. There are several local hotels within 15 minutes. We like the Smith House and the Holiday inn Express. You can Google Dahlonega Hotels or contact Geoff Hohwald for a list of Accommodations. It is best to call the hotel directly as opposed to going through the national booking line. Meals ( 5 people sign up) We hire a chef for 8 meals that are served family style. This is healthy menu that will help you to maintain your energy throughout the camp. If you are allergic to any foods please let us know so we can design the menu to accommodate your needs. $175 Note: If you are flying into Atlanta and don't want to take your banjo on the plane we can loan you a banjo, [...]

Tuning for The Crow

Fri, 6 Apr 2018 07:27:50 CST

Was able to download my first attempt at Tabledit but it did not give the tuning. Anyone!? Anyone???


Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:19:08 CST


I have been playing banjo for about 5 years and due to a combat related incident, I 'm looking for a chair that will support my lower back yet portable to take it to gigs.

Any help would be appreciated!

loraderojost III breakdown

Sun, 1 Apr 2018 09:54:26 CST

I got the tab in earls book for loraderojost III breakdown but cant find anything online to hear what it sounds like before i decide if its worth the effort to learn it and there is nowt on the cd,
Before the "buy the cd police " come on, i dont buy a song unless I hear it and like it first, after all, this is a randy song.
I dont think its possible to play from tab if you have never heard the tune unless your familiar with the licks and this one has some weird stuff going on

Backing Tracks for Download

Sun, 1 Apr 2018 07:45:36 CST

I was hoping to find some backing tracks that I could download and save on a flash drive or SD card so i could take my boom box these to family reunions and BBQ's to jam with. I have seen many backing tracks that I can log onto via internet and play on my laptop but none that I can actually download and save on a media file. Any suggestions?

Jeff Mosier Interviews Geoff Hohwald

Sun, 1 Apr 2018 07:29:18 CST

Jeff Mosier stopped by yesterday and we talked about banjo. The videos are in the next post.


Geoff Hohwald Banjo Retreat

Fri, 30 Mar 2018 10:52:37 CST

I recently returned home from a Geoff Hohwald (GHohwald ) extended weekend banjo retreat held in the hills of beautiful rural north Georgia. I usually attend three different camps each year and Geoff’s camp is one of the best. The instruction was tailored to each student’s need. Geoff can do this because of the small number of attendees (4-6) and the favorable teacher to student ratio. Other camps typically offer a limited time slot (usually 15 minutes) for dedicated 1:1 or small group time with an instructor. Geoff’s camp has primarily a 1:1, and 1:2 instructor to student ratio for the entire time. During my weekend, Geoff had two additional highly skilled guest musician-instructors: Curtis Jones, and Dave Peterson. Both were talented above all expectations and more than willing to share their knowledge. Geoff also uses recording equipment and tutorials he created to set up customized lab sessions. He put together a session for me that was targeted toward timing and speed development. I used the customized tutorial session on and off throughout the weekend and could see measurable progress. I should also mention the on-site meals were crafted by Geoff’s personal fitness trainer. The menus were what one would expect from a health food-oriented restaurant. It was an unexpected treat. I highly recommend his banjo retreat. I know I’ll be going again.

Learn correctly Hammer on and pull off

Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:30:18 CST

I should want to learn hammering on and pull off. Do you know a good video for that.
I don't place them correctly.
Than you

Banjo keeps me up at night

Wed, 28 Mar 2018 09:48:50 CST

I was wondering if anyone has the same problem as me. Let me explain.. I work days like many of us do, so I practice banjo at night. I only seem to improve my playing by going over part of songs or rifts many, many times. Sometimes for 1 or 2 hours playing just a handful of measures of one or two songs I'm working on. So later at night when I try to get some sleep so I can function the next day, I simply can't turn of the banjo in my head! It is destroying my sleep, like a brain-worm or a tune stuck in your head that you simply cannot stop running. Does anyone else have this problem? If so what have you found that helps.

double c

Tue, 27 Mar 2018 10:53:47 CST

Is double C tuning only used in clawhammer?
I am experimenting with fingerstyle (no picks) and it has huge potential, if one were good enough.
Any advice on where to get help?
Thanks, Michael.

These dang picks grrrr..........

Tue, 27 Mar 2018 03:03:23 CST


This is an issue that's probably covered multiple times but I'm having real trouble. So I've been playing now for 10 months and I still can't get the hang of using picks. Without I can play fairly well at speed and rarely with a missed string, with picks is different matter, I sound like edward scissor hands having a seizure.

Every practice I use the picks, start off slow but for some reason I just can't seem to play well when wearing them and end up playing without them.

Although I could carry on playing without them the banjo sounds so much better and alive with them. Any tips or exercises I could do? I'd ideally like to get to the point where the thought of playing without them doesn't cross my mind.

Right hand doubt on this easy lick..

Mon, 26 Mar 2018 14:09:43 CST

I am wondering what is the finger pattern on the kick off lick on

I Wonder Where You Are Tonight (Dolly Parton)

I tabbed what I can here but I still ask your hint about RH fingering on measure 2.

I play since 4 years and i do my rolls pretty straight and steady as i am working on them daily with the metronome but i still feel not so loosen and confident on stuffs that imply single string picking pattern on right hand.

Any material that you may suggest to develop this kind on confidence on blues stuff?

Playing banjo alone, winter park Fl

Sun, 25 Mar 2018 04:44:55 CST

I recently started playing 5 string and only have a couple months experience. I read that it's better to learn and practice in a jam setting to mix things up so I'm looking for someone else new and learning in or around winter park, Florida that might like to get together and practice banjo or whatever else might accompany banjo where it would be mutually beneficial.

Outlook technical support number 1-800-6838-438 Outlook tech support numbe

Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:01:20 CST

Outlook customer support contact Number (1-800-6838-438), Outlook customer support live chat, Outlook technical support email, Outlook Outlook customer support email, Outlook technical support Number (1-800-6838-438), Outlook technical support, Outlook customer support toll free Number (1-800-6838-438), free Outlook technical support, Outlook tech support Outlook, Outlook technical support live chat, Outlook mail technical support.Contact toll free number 1-800-6838-438.Outlook customer support contact Number (1-800-6838-438), Outlook customer support live chat, Outlook technical support email, Outlook Outlook customer support email, Outlook technical support Number (1-800-6838-438), Outlook technical support, Outlook customer support toll free Number (1-800-6838-438), free Outlook technical support, Outlook tech support Outlook, Outlook technical support live chat, Outlook mail technical support.Contact toll free number 1-800-6838-438.

1-800-6838-438 MSN mail technical support Toll Free Number | 24/7 MSN Tech

Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:00:29 CST

Get Expert Solution Regarding Your MSN Mail Issues like MSN Account Configuration, MSN Password Recovery, MSN Password Reset, MSN Email Sent & Receive Help, MSN Mail Recovery, etc. Contact 24/7 to MSN Customer Service Number 1-800-6838-438 (Toll Free). Contact MSN Support Any Time From Any Location of USA. For More Info Visit MSN Technical Support 1-800-6838-438..Get Expert Solution Regarding Your MSN Mail Issues like MSN Account Configuration, MSN Password Recovery, MSN Password Reset, MSN Email Sent & Receive Help, MSN Mail Recovery, etc. Contact 24/7 to MSN Customer Service Number 1-800-6838-438 (Toll Free). Contact MSN Support Any Time From Any Location of USA. For More Info Visit MSN Technical Support 1-800-6838-438..

Review of Bennett's Scruggs Backup Banjo webnar

Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:55:11 CST

I just wanted to give a review of the Scruggs Backup banjo webnar that Bennett Sullivan did this week. His instructors were Kristin Benson, Tom Adams and Wes Corbett. Each instructor had 30 minutes to cover a backup topic. Then there was a 30 minute segment for questions.Two hours about Scruggs style backup. I was unable to watch it live but have watched the recording several times. Wow, what a great job. Bennett did well moderating each segment. Kristen knocked it out of the park with her explaining her ideas about level 1 backup, level two backup and level three backup and how to take small steps to each level. That segment opened my eyes to why backup has been a mystery to me. I can now play level one backup to any bluegrass song I know. Granted, it is slow right now but the speed comes later. Tom Adams followed with great observations and tips from a professional which complimented and added on to Kristins as if they planned it out. (Maybe they did or Bennett may have) Then Wes demonstrated several different shapes to consider
( 6th shape, 9th shape, 7th shape and a blues shape ). The question and answer time was a bonus. I am hoping he does this again covering up the neck Scruggs style backup and expanding on the level 2 and level 3 backup ideas. There was tab available for download of the ideas presented and Bennett plans to tab out some of the examples played by each instructor. To me, this was all meat and potatoes. No fluff. I believe there was something in there for beginners to intermediate players. Hope this helps. I always appreciate BHO members sharing something that helped them.

playing banjo riff for " just to see you smile "

Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:45:20 CST

I know it is a fairly old song but just picking up my 1978 bellflower again and I always liked that song " just to see you smile, but I cannot quite figure it out. Any suggestions?Sorry I did not put the name of the riff in but I do appreciate the other fine information a few Pickers sent me

Strap length and position.

Fri, 23 Mar 2018 03:45:51 CST

Is there a 'Goldilocks' length of a banjo strap? What are the advantages of a 90 degree or more elbow position? Is there an advantage to 'around the back' opposed to ' one shoulder ' strap positions? Thanks

Whitewater backup: which chords?

Fri, 23 Mar 2018 03:28:09 CST

Hi, people.
What chords can I play in Bela's Whitewater backup?
Is there a trick to catch the right chords in songs? I mean, I can easily understand the I IV V progression and few others... and then? Harmony is still an impenetrable world for me :(

Thanks! Have a great day!

Tips for Improvising

Thu, 22 Mar 2018 03:07:57 CST

Hi all - I'm trying to improve my ability to improvise using scales. I know the G Major scale and the G Blues scale, and in my lessons my teacher will often play some rhythm guitar and ask me to improvise over the top using one of those scales. At the moment I feel like I'm not particularly good at it.

Does anyone have any tips for how to get better? Are there any exercises I can do that'll help me improve?

I've started practicing on my own by recording myself playing guitar and then improvising over the top of the recording. But I still struggle to produce something that flows nicely and sounds good. I'm fairly competent with my rolls and would like to be able to make use of them when improvising but at the moment I'm finding that a little tricky.


Hand Exercises

Wed, 21 Mar 2018 17:40:22 CST

A while ago someone posted a link to a video on hand and finger exercises, I,ve looked for it but can't remember which forum it was in. Does  anyone know where or what the link is? My hands are starting to tighten up somewhat and maybe this will help(image)


Any Oklahoma City Banjo Teachers?

Wed, 21 Mar 2018 09:24:36 CST

Anyone have a contact list for any Bluegrass Style Banjo teachers near or around the OKC area? Having a hard time finding any information on this.

Melodic Style 5-string banjo

Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:14:56 CST

I love the way melodic sounds. Any advice on where I can learn more about melodic style?