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Preview: Comments on susie's big adventure: Marriage and Divorce in KSA

Comments on SUSIE of ARABIA: Marriage and Divorce in KSA





Updated: 2017-11-20T06:28:36.184+03:00

 



I understand you Susie - you write to stay sane. ...

2012-06-22T22:20:18.421+03:00

I understand you Susie - you write to stay sane. I run to stay sane and I don't live in the KSA. And if I did, I couldn't run outdoors freely in the street. I'd be confined to my home and I'd write like a mad woman (you aren't, I am)...

Keep it going girl and hang in there.



In such situation, how will u give dignity and pro...

2010-03-27T18:57:34.332+03:00

In such situation, how will u give dignity and protect women?

So, there are certain terms and conditions for polygamy(plz dont ask those terms and conditions again. I dont like to do another reaserch in this big topic again. Plz ask to some other Islamic community.). Polygamy is to give dignity to woman and save society from being pollutted. Terms and conditions, limitation to 4 wives and strict rules for poloygamy is to restrict the sex manic men from marying any number of wives as per his whims without considering certain terms and conditions. Thus, u can think that Islam gives solution of all problems. But, problem is that people fail to use correct verses from Quran by ignorance or just to misuse to justify crappy activities.

Leave polygamy, Islam doesnt make marriage compulsory if u are not harming and polluting society.

Big example, is our India's former president APJ KALAM is an unmarried guy.
He is still Muslim even if he doesnt marry.

Islam is applicable in each and every sitaution, place, condition. And so Quran has not been changed and will never change. We have to take out appropriate verses from Quran which is applicable from time to time in context not out of ocntext.
So, providing solution for a problem should not be taken as chance/opportunity to bash/misuse a religion. Rather, it should be appreciated. It is pathetic that people know only rule but not the condition and situation to apply that rule. Arab constitues only 18% of world´s Muslims. There is no polygamy in world´s largest Muslim populous countrris like - Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh. India has 175 million Muslims but polygamy is dream here even though law allows for Muslims. A muslim wife can restrict husband from polygamy by mentioning it in her Nikah contract.

See the Painful Life of Unmarried Russian women!!!

http://www.womenrussia.com/russians.htm#Family%20life


A corrupted mind will do what he wants irrespective of what relgion he follows. So see the relgious scripture in context not the follower to understand a relgion. I personally feel that what many men are doing in saudi is not what Islam suggests and what Allah likes.



I hope my reponse will answer query abt polygamy i...

2010-03-27T18:57:34.331+03:00

I hope my reponse will answer query abt polygamy in Islam:-

Polygamy has become so mythical in the minds of many people that they assume being Muslim means having four wives. This is a false notion, of course. A very renowned anthropologist, Edward Westenmark, in his two-volume work, "History of Human Marriage," notes that there has been polygamy in virtually every culture and religion, including Judaism and Christianity. It doesnt mention Hinduism but there is no limit of number of wives in Hinduism as well. But the point here is not to say, "Why blame Islam?" Actually, Islam is the only religion even among Abrahamic faiths, that specifically limited the practice of polygamy(maximum of four wives) that existed before Islam and established very strict conditions for guidance. The question, "How could any man have two wives? That's terrible!" reflects ethnocentrism. How can u treat all wives equally? In what situation, condition a man can marry more than 1 wife? These rules and terms and conditions arementioned in Islam only. We assume that because we're living in the West or Asia and it seems strange, and we assume it must apply to all cultures, all times, under all circumstances. This simply isn't true. Let me give you one example. In the savage attack on Afghanistan, genocide was committed on the Afghani people. It is estimated that 1-1.5 million people lost their lives, a great majority of whom were men of a marriageable age. In Russia, there are 10 million more women than men. See the life of unmarried women in

Now, with a great shortage of men, what will happen to their widows, their orphans and their daughters of marriageable age? Is it better to leave them in a camp, with a handout? Or better a man is willing to take care of his fallen comrade's wife and children?

It is obvious that monogamy is the norm for Muslims. If we assume that having four wives is the norm, then we assume a population of 80% female and 20% male, which is an impossibility on the aggregate level. The only verse in the Quran that speaks about polygamy, speaks about limiting not instituting polygamy. The verse was revealed after the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslims were martyred, leaving behind wives and children in need of support. This verse shows the spirit and reason of the revelation (where polygamy is allowed).


Similar case was happened in Indian state Mizoram in a decade long abolition of terrorism by Indian Army in 1980s. Thousands of men were burnt, killed.
Population of men sharply decreased. Number of unmarried women and widows increased. Society became pollutted. Girls, women started standing in bus stand,market. Prostitution case increased. Sexually transmitted disease increased.



For the person who said that plural marriage is su...

2010-03-19T17:31:38.027+03:00

For the person who said that plural marriage is sunnah... the man has to get consent from his wife, not just inform her!!
And if she is not comfortable with the idea, she shouldn't have to live that way!

Here's a great post from a Muslim law student born and raised in the states, her blog is pretty funny and it also touches on some Islamic issues.

http://humarashid.com/2010/02/26/business-casual-superstar-157-modern-muslimah-one-jump-ahead/

There's also interesting information on stealing in Islam. The polygamy part is in the part on charity

Cheers

btw- susie, love your blog, haven't been here in months and it's so addictive!! As a Muslim woman in Canada, it's so great to hear your objective point of view, despite how some commenters are so easily offended.



Hi Susie..Living there I met 4 families that were ...

2010-02-12T03:41:52.643+03:00

Hi Susie..Living there I met 4 families that were living polygynous marriages. One was a Saudi who had 3 Saudi wives. He owned a 4 level apartment building and had each wife living on each floor. Another was a sudani who had 2 wives. Then there was was the Saudi who had 2 wives. And myself(I was in polygynous mariage). I met with them and ate with them(All the wives) They may not have initially liked it but they were comfortable in their lives.
Its a shame that some men hide it. Seems to me that a man who wants to practice this Sunnah should be strong enough to inform his wife. After all it IS from our religion and Islam isnt a western way of life. When practiced correctly acknowledging the different aspects such as being kind to ones wife etc...I believe that it is the ONLY life to lead.
Actually I dont mind the music..Its just very sad music, Poignant.
Again I love your writing :)



To SaveTheWomen!, The Queen, and Nautalus - Great ...

2010-02-11T19:40:51.432+03:00

To SaveTheWomen!, The Queen, and Nautalus - Great points. Thanks!

Hi Angel - Thanks so much for your comment.

Hi GypsyHeart - Saudi is definitely stuck in a time warp in many areas, but very modern in others - it's ironic. Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Hi Reuben - Thank you & Cheers! to you!

Hi Aaishah - I haven't met one woman here yet who likes the idea of plural marriage. I do know a couple of women who are first wives - the man didn't have the consideration to tell them or their kids, and they were all very hurt by the situation when they found out.
Sorry you don't like the music - you can mute it if you want. I find it easier to read or write with softer music so that's why. I love rock from the 60s!!!



Susie--I have to give you respect because you did ...

2010-02-11T18:48:27.851+03:00

Susie--I have to give you respect because you did what real women do.You followed your husband to a place you really didn't want to follow him too. Its a shame that you cant see Islam in your life. You may find Saudi a better place to live in if you felt less combative to the values that Islam imposes...such as plural marriage which is a beautiful concept and not true that many women find it distasteful.
How many Saudis are you actually around out of interest in a daily basis?
Islam is perfect. The way that some of us may practice Islam is not perfect.
For the Judge to separate man and wife based on tribal issues is very far from Islam. The Judge may have ordered it but that didn't make it valid. There is no obedience to the creation over the creator. (Hadeeth)
The man who divorced his wife because of an operation. Yes thats harsh but its not haram in Islam. I guess the thing is in Islam we dont date. We dont spend time walking in parks, going to movies or stealing kisses before we wed. You marry based on other things. Yes even medical conditions. Love comes after marriage in Islam. Not generally before.
Anyways thanks for your blog. Ill definitely be a better lurker from now on.
PS. Your song selection seems to be very maudlin!



hi susie, i just discovered your blog and you have...

2010-02-09T10:33:43.492+03:00

hi susie, i just discovered your blog and you have quite an interesting story! it's hard to believe some of the things that go on in KSA. i'm very fascinated by what i've read so far and i look forward to reading about more of your adventures. cheers.



Thank you to Everyone for your much appreciated co...

2010-02-09T10:14:30.750+03:00

Thank you to Everyone for your much appreciated comments.

To Callie - I have said this before - that had my teenage son been a girl, I would not have agreed to move here. I have spoken to a young woman whose mother is American and dad is Saudi, and she told me that sadly she feels like she doesn't really "belong" to either society, that she feels like she doesn't fit in. I can't speak for all mixed children. It seems that Saudis tend to disregard the mother's heritage altogether and consider the children only Saudi, while at the same time there remains that stigma of having a mother from elsewhere.



After reading several of your posts about ex-pat m...

2010-02-09T09:44:17.580+03:00

After reading several of your posts about ex-pat marriages in the kingdom, I began to wonder if the women ever consider the lives their sons and daughters will be forced to live. The women seem to be concerned with their own thoughts and feelings ahead of anything else.

Things might not seems so bad for the sons if you don't consider having your thoughts filtered through SA ideas of what is correct and growing up with a very narrow understanding of what the world offers. (Let alone that I have read that part Saudi children are not fully accepted by other Saudies.) But their daughters? How could a woman condemn their daughters to a life that has very little to no opportunities to become a whole person. They might think they could protect their daughter, but the man has the final say in any decision.

I repeat how could a Western woman do that to their daughters? Susie, would you have brought your daughter to SA if she was not married? Even if she wanted to come?



I love your blog. Thank you for writing about this...

2010-02-08T09:48:06.405+03:00

I love your blog. Thank you for writing about this, it kinda made me laugh and sad in a way. Ugghh, sometimes i think when the world is involving and changing with time. Saudi is still stuck in time.



All I have to say to the person who said all you w...

2010-02-08T03:36:05.890+03:00

All I have to say to the person who said all you write about is negative things about living in Saudi Arabia obviously has not visited your photo blog, Jeddah Daily Photo, where you capture beautiful images of the kingdom and make wonderful remarks. Great post once again!



Anonymous said... I got married at age 15 in Canad...

2010-02-06T13:38:46.177+03:00

Anonymous said...
I got married at age 15 in Canada.It was in 1974. at that time the legal age for marriage was 12 years old for a girl and 14 for a boy with parental consent.

there is a is a big difference here. Presumably you and your spouse wanted to get married and the parents all consented to your will with no self interest, conversely to this girl having to consent to her father's will to marry a geezer for father's financial gain.



Anonn at 12:41 said A lot of what goes on in saudi...

2010-02-06T11:12:56.463+03:00

Anonn at 12:41 said A lot of what goes on in saudi has to do with culture and not religion! and others also make comments basically saying "Don't blame Islam for these things happening" BUT Saudi Arabia has Shariah law - law based on Islam, so Shariah law should protect people from the horrors that the culture perpetrates in the name of Islam. (This marriage case was not hidden in a Bedouin tent but brought before the law) but it appears the law supports the culture such as allowing this marriage to continue; such as allowing honor killers to go unpunished etc. So Islam is not standing for justice and is bowing to disfunctional and misogynistic culture. Until Shariah law addresses these "cultural" issues with justice for everyone then Islam will be responsible for these atrocities.



The woman whose husband divorced her because of he...

2010-02-06T10:24:25.073+03:00

The woman whose husband divorced her because of her 'defective' appendix really dodged a bullet!

Didn't that woman who was forced to divorce have to go to jail because she refused to live with the brothers and it would be illegal for her to stay and live with her EX husband out of wedlock. Did you also know that her father had approved of the marriage when she got married and when he died years later was when the brothers ordered her divorced.



O Susie, how funny! I am writing about the same su...

2010-02-06T01:10:19.073+03:00

O Susie, how funny! I am writing about the same subject today!

I would say that the guy who divorced his wife was dissappointed with her looks or something. And just used the silly excuse of her having had a minor but life saving operation to construct a reason to divorce her. That way he saves his ''honour'' while tarnishing hers. Besides she is now ''used goods''. Her marketvalue practically nil and she now has not much of a future to look forward too.

As far as the twelve year old girl is concerned who was sold to an 80 year old pedophile: I bet they got something really big to blackmail her and her mother with. They probably told her they would kill her mother or something atrocious like that.



O Susie, how funny! I am writing about the same su...

2010-02-06T01:10:11.118+03:00

O Susie, how funny! I am writing about the same subject today!

I would say that the guy who divorced his wife was dissappointed with her looks or something. And just used the silly excuse of her having had a minor but life saving operation to construct a reason to divorce her. That way he saves his ''honour'' while tarnishing hers. Besides she is now ''used goods''. Her marketvalue practically nil and she now has not much of a future to look forward too.

As far as the twelve year old girl is concerned who was sold to an 80 year old pedophile: I bet they got something really big to blackmail her and her mother with. They probably told her they would kill her mother or something atrocious like that.



Hi VelvetBrick - Hopefully we can have another eve...

2010-02-06T00:30:24.383+03:00

Hi VelvetBrick - Hopefully we can have another evening at Nando's this coming summer!

Hi AnotherAnon @ 8:13AM - Thank you for all the food for thought and the words of support and encouragement! Your comment is a big confidence booster for me. Thanks so much for the ideas.

Hi Veeds - From what I read, Fatima was in a woman's prison - and the facilities here are deplorable. It is very hard to figure out the mentality here at times...

Hi SanAntCicily - Fatime's hubby did not want a divorce. They were married long enough for her to have had a child already and another on the way before she was given the ultimatum to either divorce her husband or go to jail. I cannot make sense of what happened to this young couple.

Hi Again Veeds! If someone would care to explain WHY she had to go to jail and if it was a prison or shelter, that would be great! Many times getting to the real truth of the matter in this country is next to impossible though...

Hi Anon @ 11:30pm - I am learning about the scholarship program but didn't know about the stipend for the students' mom. Thanks so much for the info!



Susie, Thank you for answering my question. I ju...

2010-02-05T23:30:40.731+03:00

Susie,

Thank you for answering my question.

I just wanted to tell you that if your son got a scholarship to study in US from Saudi government you can accompany him , and according to what I've heard you can be included in his medical insurance and might even got your own monthly stipend. I'm not sure about the procedure but I know few Saudis who were ables to take their mothers with them abroad . They just had to prove they were the only male supporter or something. Think about it and ask the Saudi Consulate when the time comes.

Another Anonymous suggestion about virtual work is a great idea too.

I'm sure there are others options to your situation as well , you just need to figure them out. I wish you the best of luck.


- The same 2:09AM Anonymous :) -



As I was saying, it's too pat to attempt to wr...

2010-02-05T22:24:44.004+03:00

As I was saying, it's too pat to attempt to write something off by saying -- as so many do -- that something makes no sense "like a lot of things in Saudi Arabia." That doesn't help get to the heart of the matter; it only helps us avoid the hard work of thinking about it and figuring out why.

Things do make sense (except for certain things related to my iPod). Those who care to burrow down will eventually find the sense, even if the reason is abhorrent.

I'm sure one of Susie's readers knows why woman was sent to prison...or a shelter.



I'm confused! Why would she have to go to pris...

2010-02-05T12:45:24.388+03:00

I'm confused! Why would she have to go to prison because she married beneath her class? So basically what you are saying is that her brothers told her that she either got divorced or went to prison. Now what if her husband did not want a divorce. Is this another one of those cases where it just makes absolutely no sense like a lot of things in Saudi Arabia?



Following up on my question about Fatima's pri...

2010-02-05T09:01:11.846+03:00

Following up on my question about Fatima's prison sentence: I'm supposing that it could be that the prison (or shelter) was more like "protective custody" (as abominable as that sounds).

As a divorced woman with a child and possibly no job or job skills, she would be in a poor position to support herself, particularly since returning to her family would not have been especially palatable.

I'm totally guessing, open to more informed opinions.

As a side note, what I've been finding about Saudi culture is that there's a temptation among us expats to fall back on what I call the "go figure!" explanation when we don't understand why something happened. Even my veteran colleagues often fall back on non-explanations, as though things in KSA happen for no particular rhyme or reason. As one of my esteemed old anthroplogy professors used to say, "When you're not smart enough or diligent enough to track down the answer, just attribute it to randomness." He'd say we need a place to store or hide all the things we don't understand, so we put them in a garbage can called "random variation."

Well enough ranting...I should save that for my own blog :>)



Susie, Yes, the USA economy is still struggling, ...

2010-02-05T08:13:45.336+03:00

Susie,

Yes, the USA economy is still struggling, but you love to write, and you are a good writer.

You can do what I do.... I work at home 90% - 100% of the time, with a few trips to visit clients.

I write. I create online training programs. I write.

You can earn a living, even in this economy, as a virtual worker. The Internet has widened our options.

Yes, I do live frugally due to these current economic times.

But, I'd encourage you to become a virtual worker by using your writing talent, your photography, and whatever artistic skills you have of which I am unaware.

Result? You could have the best of both worlds: Spend some time in the USA with Adam while he's in school (and your daughter and other family members), AND spend some time in the KSA with DH and his mom.

It is important for him to be there at this time in his mom's life (and especially after what you two experienced after 9/11).

When you are a virtual worker, you have more freedom.

And (sadly) after your mother-in-law passes away one year in the future, then maybe you and DH could have a second honeymoon!

Travel anywhere, and you could work whenever and wherever you want.

Dream it. Believe it. Make it happen.

I know you can! With this blog, you are already on your way.

~Another Anonymous.



Hi Susie!!! I apologize for not writing you soone...

2010-02-05T05:13:28.575+03:00

Hi Susie!!! I apologize for not writing you sooner! I miss you much! Thank you for your comments on my blog....I loved how you have glasses so similar to my mom's.! Things are very busy but all is well. I so wish you were here so we could go to Nando's again and catch up on sooooo much! Just know that I love you, admire you greatly, miss you even more and wish you blessings and peace, dear, sweet friend! : ))) xoxox
Carol



Hi Anon @ 4:31AM - I do have a married daughter wh...

2010-02-05T02:15:06.574+03:00

Hi Anon @ 4:31AM - I do have a married daughter who resides in Arizona with her husband and two children. And I do miss her very much.

Hi MissChatterbox - Thank you so much for your comment. I don't feel that my writing is against Islam or Sandi Arabia, but there are people who take offense easily and who do see it that way. Many women have gotten involved with Saudi men, and a few have found happiness living here. But most of the women I know here would rather be living elsewhere if they had the choice. Young women in love don't realize the hardships and the sacrifices one must make to live here - and if my writing can help one of them make a better informed decision about her own life, then it's worth it.
Thanks so much for your comment.

Hi Anon/Lise - Consider how very old this civilisation is compared to the West. Also consider how far behind in social and women's rights SaudiArabia is from the rest of the world. The country is not advancing in these areas and in fact seems backward.

Hi Veeds - Women here can be thrown in prison easily at the behest of men family members. That's one reason why so many women will not stand up for their own rights or their fellow sisters'rights. What brother who loves his sister would rather see her spend several years in prison than happily married to a man the brother finds unsuitable? It's not normal. I want my family to be happy and I think most normal people do too. This story is just so sick! Thanks for your great comment!